Book writing help
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20-08-2014, 05:33 AM
Book writing help
Hi everyone, my husband is writing a fiction book staring Damien, the son of the devil


We want to include some scriptures specifically about Lucifer. What exactly did Lucifer do to have "fallen"?

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20-08-2014, 05:41 AM
RE: Book writing help
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High

Fascinating side comment in the Skeptic's Annotated Bible: (14:12) Lucifer, son of the morning
This is the only verse in the bible that mentions Lucifer. Although most Christians consider Lucifer to be Satan (the devil), there is little biblical justification for doing so. In this verse "Lucifer" refers to the king of Babylon (Nebuchadrezzar?) and Lucifer (the light bearer) is also called the "son of the morning" or morning star. The only other person that is referred to in that way is Jesus (Rev.22:16). Does this mean that Lucifer is Jesus?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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20-08-2014, 06:14 AM
RE: Book writing help
You can find more interesting stories from the Islamic version
I can help if you like
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20-08-2014, 06:59 AM
RE: Book writing help
Persian Jews have an interesting tradition in which the devil simply refuses to bow to Adam. That's it. He states a being of fire should not bow to a lesser being of dirt. God expels him from paradise, but, due to his eons of loyal service, grants the devil the wish of being the tempter of mankind, the one who causes man to fall from grace.
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20-08-2014, 07:05 AM
RE: Book writing help
(20-08-2014 06:59 AM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  Persian Jews have an interesting tradition in which the devil simply refuses to bow to Adam. That's it. He states a being of fire should not bow to a lesser being of dirt. God expels him from paradise, but, due to his eons of loyal service, grants the devil the wish of being the tempter of mankind, the one who causes man to fall from grace.

That's interesting, that's the exact story of Iblis (Satan) from the Quaran.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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20-08-2014, 07:22 AM
RE: Book writing help
(20-08-2014 07:05 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(20-08-2014 06:59 AM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  Persian Jews have an interesting tradition in which the devil simply refuses to bow to Adam. That's it. He states a being of fire should not bow to a lesser being of dirt. God expels him from paradise, but, due to his eons of loyal service, grants the devil the wish of being the tempter of mankind, the one who causes man to fall from grace.

That's interesting, that's the exact story of Iblis (Satan) from the Quaran.

I figured as much since I knew that the Islamic creation story concerned the four classical elements. There is obviously some overlap since Persian Jews and Muslims lived in close proximity.
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20-08-2014, 08:05 AM
RE: Book writing help
Interesting! I actually no little of the story and the bible doesn't seem to talk about it much.

I see the verses, but they still don't explain what lucifer did to become fallen....

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20-08-2014, 09:12 AM
RE: Book writing help
(20-08-2014 08:05 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Interesting! I actually no little of the story and the bible doesn't seem to talk about it much.

I see the verses, but they still don't explain what lucifer did to become fallen....

From christianity.com:

Quote:Apparently, this represents the actual beginning of sin in the universe—preceding the fall of the human Adam by an indeterminate time. Sin originated in the free will of Lucifer in which—with full understanding of the issues involved—he chose to rebel against the Creator.

This mighty angelic being was rightfully judged by God: “I threw you to the earth” (Ezekiel 28:18). This doesn’t mean that Satan had no further access to heaven, for other Scripture verses clearly indicate that Satan maintained this access even after his fall (Job 1:6-12; Zechariah 3:1,2). However, Ezekiel 28:18 indicates that Satan was absolutely and completely cast out of God’s heavenly government and his place of authority (Luke 10:18).

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20-08-2014, 11:31 AM
RE: Book writing help
(20-08-2014 09:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-08-2014 08:05 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Interesting! I actually no little of the story and the bible doesn't seem to talk about it much.

I see the verses, but they still don't explain what lucifer did to become fallen....

From christianity.com:

Quote:Apparently, this represents the actual beginning of sin in the universe—preceding the fall of the human Adam by an indeterminate time. Sin originated in the free will of Lucifer in which—with full understanding of the issues involved—he chose to rebel against the Creator.

This mighty angelic being was rightfully judged by God: “I threw you to the earth” (Ezekiel 28:18). This doesn’t mean that Satan had no further access to heaven, for other Scripture verses clearly indicate that Satan maintained this access even after his fall (Job 1:6-12; Zechariah 3:1,2). However, Ezekiel 28:18 indicates that Satan was absolutely and completely cast out of God’s heavenly government and his place of authority (Luke 10:18).

That still doesn't really say what he did specifically. He rebelled against god. great. HOW? Did he tell god, "Hey, maybe instead of resting on the 7th day, you spend that day ensuring that humans have compassion for their fellow man as they need air?" or "Perhaps if you are going to require that they believe in you, that you provide a clear message as to who you are so that they don't get unnecessarily confused?" Or "God, having sick babies as a part of your plan is a really stupid plan. think it through, buddy."

I rebelled against my parents once by going to the movies to watch an R rated flick when I said I was going to the library. I was grounded for a week, not cast out of the house for eternity.

What exactly did the bad boy do?

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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20-08-2014, 11:37 AM
RE: Book writing help
(20-08-2014 11:31 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(20-08-2014 09:12 AM)Chas Wrote:  From christianity.com:

That still doesn't really say what he did specifically. He rebelled against god. great. HOW? Did he tell god, "Hey, maybe instead of resting on the 7th day, you spend that day ensuring that humans have compassion for their fellow man as they need air?" or "Perhaps if you are going to require that they believe in you, that you provide a clear message as to who you are so that they don't get unnecessarily confused?" Or "God, having sick babies as a part of your plan is a really stupid plan. think it through, buddy."

I rebelled against my parents once by going to the movies to watch an R rated flick when I said I was going to the library. I was grounded for a week, not cast out of the house for eternity.

What exactly did the bad boy do?

Sorry, that's all I've got. I can only take so much drivel at one sitting. [Image: puke.gif]

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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