Born again logic with "Son of Sam" Killer
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-08-2011, 03:54 PM
RE: Born again logic with "Son of Sam" Killer
Hey.

Yes. Forgiveness requires both remourse and the acceptance of salvation through Christ.

Just remember, "Christianity" doesn't say every single person that doesn't accept Christ is going to hell. The theology of certain sects does.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-08-2011, 05:25 PM
RE: Born again logic with "Son of Sam" Killer
(25-08-2011 03:24 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I would completely agree, except that this is no evidence of such a place as Heaven or Hell.

I meant that as a hypothetical. I don't believe in heaven, of course. But a heaven that wouldn't let Ghandi in is a poorly designed heaven.

(25-08-2011 03:54 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey.

Yes. Forgiveness requires both remourse and the acceptance of salvation through Christ.

Just remember, "Christianity" doesn't say every single person that doesn't accept Christ is going to hell. The theology of certain sects does.

John 14:6 King James Version Wrote:Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus seems to disagree with you.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-08-2011, 05:57 PM
RE: Born again logic with "Son of Sam" Killer
Hey, Sines.

You have to know that the theology of the different Christian sects varies. I refuse to believe that you don't.

The idea that every Christian believes that everyone will burn in hell, including Gandhi, is demonstraby false. Behold the demonstration. The idea that there is no disagreement among Christians about the nature of God, heaven, hell and sin ignores the fact that there are 38 000 Christian sects.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-08-2011, 06:37 PM
RE: Born again logic with "Son of Sam" Killer
(25-08-2011 05:57 PM)Ghost Wrote:  The idea that every Christian believes that everyone will burn in hell, including Gandhi, is demonstraby false.
Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

You are quite wrong:
Quote:According to Christianity salvation isn’t merit based. It’s not a system of religion that eternally rewards good works or a noble life regardless of what that life lived for. Christianity is about Jesus. It’s about those who follow this seemingly simple Jewish rabbi who claims to be God and the Only Way to eternal life. Christianity is about a God who demands an unwavering trust in himself in order to find eternal life.

Our emotions scream against “salvation only by faith in Christ” because we’re self-righteous religious fanatics looking for salvation through good deeds and by public consensus. But that’s not God’s way, and it’s not Jesus’ way. There’s only One Way, and beyond him, there’s only hell for those who don’t believe – even for a life as seemingly good as Gandhi’s.
http://www.atone.me/?p=2509

The Gospel Coalition does not approve of Bell's book:
http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/just...-response/

Quote:Well, I shall not exhalt this man as being perfect. Gandhi did support Hitler in Germany at one time.

It is true that He was good among men but he turned the truth of God clearly displayed in creation into an idol. He served creature rather than God. His acts did not glorify God. They were apart from God. Believing to be wise, Gandhi was a fool. Read Romans one.

He did hear the Christian Gospel but he rejected it. He was a man born under original sin. He was not perfect when God asks for such in his judgment. God lives in unapproachable light. That is why Christ is necessary even for Mother Teresa to be in heaven. Christ must step in to supply grace to bridge this gap since no man but Christ is perfect. He does so only in this life. It is better to be a living dog than a dead lion. There is hope when someone is still alive.

Gandhi lacked grace. It remains up to God to judge but it stands that he is likely in hell. It is a place that every man deserves but not every man goes. Grace exists apart from doing some good works. Mercy does too. Man is still guilty for not being in the right relationship with God. Christ, as only God could, must take the punishment ment for us. Otherwise, the wrath of God remains on those who are born objects of wrath. Gandhi was outside of Christ. He was found outside of the church, which alone has salvation.
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=192749

Quote:From the short video trailer I have seen, it seems that this is a point Rob Bell desires to make. Though I cannot take the train of thought to the conclusions he has drawn, I can agree with him that I do not have the freedom to say with certainty that Gandhi is in Hell and thus I should not put a sign on an art exhibit that condemns him. Doing so is not only poor taste, but poor theology and in the end it is not helpful to the furtherance of the gospel. Yet, I can say with certainty that if Gandhi, or any Baptist, or Catholic, or Mother Teresa, or Muslim did not know Jesus as his or her Savior that indeed he or she, like every other person in the same condition will suffer Hell.
http://www.feelmyfaith.com/2011/04/is-ga...-hell.html

Quote:Time featured an in-depth article last week on Mars Hill Bible Church pastor Rob Bell, who has torn a path of criticism through the evangelic ranks lately following the release of his book, Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived.

The idea for the book began when Bell set up an art exhibit at the church to coincide with a sermon series on peacekeeping. Part of the exhibit featured a Gandhi quote from one of the artists. Next to the quote, someone, presumably a member of the church, added this pithy statement:
Reality check: He's in hell.

......

And yes, under Christian doctrine, Gandhi, with all his peacekeeping pronouncements, is unequivocally and without a doubt, suffering miserably and unmercifully in hell.

Read more: http://blogcritics.org/culture/article/l...z1W5eHoNuG


Is Gandhi Burning in Hell? Pastor Says No, Gets Fired.




Quote:Brian McLaren Quotes, 'Ignorance is bliss' to 'Theology'
by Matt Slick

Here are more quotes from Brian McLaren. Again we ask if he is a false teacher.

3 Miscellaneous
Ghandi followed the way of Christ: "We see great leaders-- such as St. Francis, Gandhi (who sought to follow the way of Christ without identifying himself as a Christian), and Martin Luther King, Jr.-- who's reading and application of the Bible advanced the narrative trajectory..."5
--------------How does anyone (Ghandi, a Hindu) follow the way of Christ apart from Christ since Christ said to follow him? "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men," (Matt. 4:19). "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me," (Matt. 10:38); "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me," (John 10:27).

Buddhist, Hindu, and Jewish disciples don't have to adhere to Christianity: "The I must add, though, that I don't believe making disciples must equal making adherence to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many(not all!)circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish contexts. This will be hard, you say, and I agree. But frankly, it's not at all easy to be a follower of Jesus in many "Christian" religious context, either."6
--------------When you have a lax and inaccurate view of Christianity, you mistakingly we conclude that those in anti-Christian religious systems can remain in those systems while following Jesus. Not true. Jesus requires that we abandon everything and follow him. Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism are incomplete and insufficient. They need to be abandoned when coming to Christ. "When he puts forth all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 And a stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers," (John 10:4-5).

Being saved means not saved from hell: "In the Bible, save means ‘rescue’ or ‘heal’. It emphatically does not mean ‘save from hell’ or ‘give eternal life after death,’ as many preachers seem to imply in sermon after sermon. Rather its meaning varies from passage to passage, but in general, in any context, save means ‘get out of trouble.’ The trouble could be sickness, war, political intrigue, oppression, poverty, imprisonment, or any kind of danger or evil."10
----------------------McLaren is profoundly in error here. In regard to the work of Christ on the cross, salvation means to be saved from the righteous judgment of a holy God whereby the sinner, the lawbreaker, is condemned eternal damnation. We call this eternal damnation, hell. We are actually "saved" from God's righteous judgment. McLaren is simply wrong.

http://carm.org/brian-mclaren-quotes-ign...s-theology

Christian author's book sparks charges of heresy
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/01...al-church/

I spoke to many pastors in my life and all basically say the same thing:
If you don't accept Jesus Christ. No matter if you are a good person. You will go to hell because God said only to trust him and follow Jesus. If you don't follow Jesus. You are damned no matter what.

[Image: buddhasig.png]
“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” ~ Gautama Buddha
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-08-2011, 06:47 PM
RE: Born again logic with "Son of Sam" Killer
Hey, Doc.

How am I wrong? I never said that NO Christian believes that. I said not ALL Christians believe that.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-08-2011, 06:49 PM
RE: Born again logic with "Son of Sam" Killer
Does it matter what they believe or what is written?

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes lucradis's post
25-08-2011, 06:53 PM
RE: Born again logic with "Son of Sam" Killer
Hey, Ludacris.

What they believe.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-08-2011, 06:56 PM
RE: Born again logic with "Son of Sam" Killer
(25-08-2011 06:47 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Doc.

How am I wrong? I never said that NO Christian believes that. I said not ALL Christians believe that.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Unforgettably you are in the minority and your views are considered heretic.

[Image: buddhasig.png]
“Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” ~ Gautama Buddha
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-08-2011, 07:15 PM
RE: Born again logic with "Son of Sam" Killer
Hey, Doc.

You have no idea whether I'm in the minority or not, I can't comprehend how I'm in the anything because I haven't stated a belief, I've just reported that there is variation among Christians and while some do consider such things heresy, plenty of Christians agree. They believe that the central message of Jesus is love, not punishment. What are their numbers? Neither of us knows. But to say that all Christians believe that everyone that does not know Jesus, for whatever reason, is going to hell, is demonstrably false. That point is beyond contention.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-08-2011, 08:44 PM (This post was last modified: 25-08-2011 08:48 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Born again logic with "Son of Sam" Killer
So this psychopath, given enough "alone" time to consider and appreciate the consequences of his mayhem, finds it hard to live with and turns to religion to alleviate his suffering. The fact that it actually does alleviate his suffering is sufficient reason for me to reject it. ... But I can't begrudge him for doing what it takes to keep on keeping on.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: