Botched Lethal Injections in the US
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26-07-2014, 11:04 PM
RE: Botched Lethal Injections in the US
(26-07-2014 10:47 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  But I don't agree that good treatment remains deserved regardless of what a person does.

Well, there you go. That's a statistically varying precept. What human rights ought a society to acknowledge? And under what conditions, if any, ought those rights to be waived?

I personally see that those considered inalienable ought truly to be inalienable. I don't consider capital punishment to accomplish anything, either morally, fiscally, or prophylactically; thus, I see no merit to it.

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27-07-2014, 10:39 AM
RE: Botched Lethal Injections in the US
(26-07-2014 11:04 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(26-07-2014 10:47 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  But I don't agree that good treatment remains deserved regardless of what a person does.

Well, there you go. That's a statistically varying precept. What human rights ought a society to acknowledge? And under what conditions, if any, ought those rights to be waived?

I personally see that those considered inalienable ought truly to be inalienable. I don't consider capital punishment to accomplish anything, either morally, fiscally, or prophylactically; thus, I see no merit to it.

And that's certainly an opinion. Drinking Beverage

You do realize that people have been known to escape from prisons. Consider

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-07-2014, 10:55 AM
RE: Botched Lethal Injections in the US
(27-07-2014 10:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-07-2014 11:04 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Well, there you go. That's a statistically varying precept. What human rights ought a society to acknowledge? And under what conditions, if any, ought those rights to be waived?

I personally see that those considered inalienable ought truly to be inalienable. I don't consider capital punishment to accomplish anything, either morally, fiscally, or prophylactically; thus, I see no merit to it.

And that's certainly an opinion. Drinking Beverage

You do realize that people have been known to escape from prisons. Consider

Rare enough that it makes national news when it happens. Personally I see no reason to keep the death penalty it fails at anything other than barbaric retaliation and has been employed against innocent people. Pick any sabermetric you like the death penalty does nothing to prevent crime or make people safer.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-07-2014, 11:04 AM
RE: Botched Lethal Injections in the US
(27-07-2014 10:55 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(27-07-2014 10:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  And that's certainly an opinion. Drinking Beverage

You do realize that people have been known to escape from prisons. Consider

Rare enough that it makes national news when it happens. Personally I see no reason to keep the death penalty it fails at anything other than barbaric retaliation and has been employed against innocent people. Pick any sabermetric you like the death penalty does nothing to prevent crime or make people safer.

I am not arguing for the death penalty. So, there's that.

I am arguing that the absolutist positions on the subject are not tenable - there are always exceptions.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-07-2014, 11:14 AM
RE: Botched Lethal Injections in the US
(27-07-2014 11:04 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-07-2014 10:55 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Rare enough that it makes national news when it happens. Personally I see no reason to keep the death penalty it fails at anything other than barbaric retaliation and has been employed against innocent people. Pick any sabermetric you like the death penalty does nothing to prevent crime or make people safer.

I am not arguing for the death penalty. So, there's that.

I am arguing that the absolutist positions on the subject are not tenable - there are always exceptions.

If a guilty man escapes he can be (and usually is, very quickly) recaptured. If an innocent man is executed....

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-07-2014, 11:26 AM
RE: Botched Lethal Injections in the US
(27-07-2014 11:14 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(27-07-2014 11:04 AM)Chas Wrote:  I am not arguing for the death penalty. So, there's that.

I am arguing that the absolutist positions on the subject are not tenable - there are always exceptions.

If a guilty man escapes he can be (and usually is, very quickly) recaptured. If an innocent man is executed....

True.

However, there are cases where there really is no credible possibility of a mistake.

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27-07-2014, 11:58 AM
RE: Botched Lethal Injections in the US
(27-07-2014 11:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-07-2014 11:14 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  If a guilty man escapes he can be (and usually is, very quickly) recaptured. If an innocent man is executed....

True.

However, there are cases where there really is no credible possibility of a mistake.

And in those cases I am in favor of life without the possibility of parole.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-07-2014, 12:47 PM
RE: Botched Lethal Injections in the US
(27-07-2014 11:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  However, there are cases where there really is no credible possibility of a mistake.

Yes, but in theory that's all convictions. So such a distinction is impossible.

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27-07-2014, 12:53 PM
RE: Botched Lethal Injections in the US
(27-07-2014 12:47 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(27-07-2014 11:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  However, there are cases where there really is no credible possibility of a mistake.

Yes, but in theory that's all convictions. So such a distinction is impossible.

There is a difference between beyond a reasonable doubt and 100% sure. That .01% (or more depending on the jury and the circumstances of the case) is a very wide gap in some cases. Video evidence along with forensic dna testing and ballistics etc can build a very airtight case but most of the time there is not such evidence.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-07-2014, 01:00 PM
RE: Botched Lethal Injections in the US
(27-07-2014 12:53 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(27-07-2014 12:47 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Yes, but in theory that's all convictions. So such a distinction is impossible.

There is a difference between beyond a reasonable doubt and 100% sure. That .01% (or more depending on the jury and the circumstances of the case) is a very wide gap in some cases. Video evidence along with forensic dna testing and ballistics etc can build a very airtight case but most of the time there is not such evidence.

... Double-guilty! For when we're really sure!

How in the world could one possibly define and implement such a standard?

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