Poll: You...
barely remember your dreams
have regular dreams maybe occasionally lucid
Can lucid dream naturally but randomly
have had an OBE
Lucid dream a lot and have had an OBE
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Brain Games-Lucid dreaming,OBEs & hallucinations
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31-03-2017, 02:02 PM
RE: Brain Games-Lucid dreaming,OBEs & hallucinations
Quote:I was walking through the snow on Meadowlark Lane toward my old home in Columbus. I turned to walk across the empty lot behind my house when I realized I was dreaming. Deciding to do something with the dream, I ran toward a picnic table in our back yard and, using it as a step to take off, jumped up into the air. I easily propelled myself some 40 or 50 feet up. Looking down, I saw the roof of the house and noticed that although it was roughly similar to the real house in Columbus, it had an extra addition built out from the front. This detail was immediately corrected in the dream. Arcing over the house, I landed in the front yard.

Oh I do things like that all the time.

I'd never have the kind of control to make myself say "This is a lucid dream" though.

I don't think I even talk in my dreams.

I'd love to do that. Please teach me how!
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31-03-2017, 03:41 PM
RE: Brain Games-Lucid dreaming,OBEs & hallucinations
(31-03-2017 01:47 PM)Loom Wrote:  I've had many dreams where something good or bad happens and I realize it's not real, only to 'wake up' in my dream and realize I'M STILL DREAMING.

When I was recording all of my lucid dreams, I had false awakenings much more frequently. The reason is pretty simple. When you realize you are dreaming, you expect to wake up, especially when the scene fades away (which too often happens). That expectation itself can create the dream scene of a false awakening. I can't tell you how many times I had to try to wake myself again to record a lucid dream when I discovered I was still dreaming.

My wife laughed at me for that. She kept telling me that if I realize I am still dreaming in a false awakening, I shouldn't wake myself but continue to enjoy a new lucid dream. However I never got in that habit, because I didn't want to forget the dream I had just before during a new dream. Dream memories don't last long.
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31-03-2017, 03:50 PM (This post was last modified: 31-03-2017 03:57 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Brain Games-Lucid dreaming,OBEs & hallucinations
(31-03-2017 02:01 PM)EvieTheTurtle Wrote:  Please teach me how to do that!

If you are lucid as often as you say, it shouldn't be too hard to learn by just experimenting like we did. We learned we could control all sorts of things in our dreams, with the exceptions of written texts, lighting levels, and tastes. Those were very difficult to alter, probably due to some poorly understood aspects of the dream state itself.

Many people fail because they try to control their dreams through the efforts of the dream ego, the person you are playing in the dream. If you remember you are actually the dreamer, you can control your expectations and thoughts to control your dreams. That's really all that's involved.

Of course even then you will have some successes and some failures, but that is true of most kinds of efforts.

A few other hints: If you lose a scene, don't panic. Very often if you can concentrate on the movements of your dream body, a scene will come back. Body movements are among the easiest things to control.

Sudden and unexpected actions can make dream scenes disappear. I used to jump through ceilings to make scenes disappear deliberately just to start with a clean slate.

Different people can get different results from the same efforts. I could push through walls easily enough, but my wife kept pushing them over or breaking them like flimsy backgrounds of theatrical productions.
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01-04-2017, 04:34 PM
RE: Brain Games-Lucid dreaming,OBEs & hallucinations
(31-03-2017 03:50 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 02:01 PM)EvieTheTurtle Wrote:  Please teach me how to do that!


Many people fail because they try to control their dreams through the efforts of the dream ego, the person you are playing in the dream. If you remember you are actually the dreamer, you can control your expectations and thoughts to control your dreams. That's really all that's involved.

Yes that's right. The best way to think about it is that everything you see and touch is YOU. The rock or tree that you might see across a field is as much you as your dream body. First time I tried changing something I was in a big open field in grass up to my knees, I felt the grass blowing against my legs, then I looked at the grass further away and thought about how it would/does feel the same way, after a while I could feel "connected" to all the grass in the field, then I thought about making the grass higher as if I was pulling it out ground, and the whole field of grass rose up about a foot or so.

(31-03-2017 03:50 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Different people can get different results from the same efforts. I could push through walls easily enough, but my wife kept pushing them over or breaking them like flimsy backgrounds of theatrical productions.

For me walls are like a sort of non-Newtonian fluid, where if I pushed softly and slowly I could push through, but if I moved to quickly it would go solid. If I was part way through when it went solid, I'd have to break the wall to get unstuck.

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01-04-2017, 06:15 PM
RE: Brain Games-Lucid dreaming,OBEs & hallucinations
(01-04-2017 04:34 PM)unsapien Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 03:50 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Many people fail because they try to control their dreams through the efforts of the dream ego, the person you are playing in the dream. If you remember you are actually the dreamer, you can control your expectations and thoughts to control your dreams. That's really all that's involved.

Yes that's right. The best way to think about it is that everything you see and touch is YOU. The rock or tree that you might see across a field is as much you as your dream body. First time I tried changing something I was in a big open field in grass up to my knees, I felt the grass blowing against my legs, then I looked at the grass further away and thought about how it would/does feel the same way, after a while I could feel "connected" to all the grass in the field, then I thought about making the grass higher as if I was pulling it out ground, and the whole field of grass rose up about a foot or so.

(31-03-2017 03:50 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Different people can get different results from the same efforts. I could push through walls easily enough, but my wife kept pushing them over or breaking them like flimsy backgrounds of theatrical productions.

For me walls are like a sort of non-Newtonian fluid, where if I pushed softly and slowly I could push through, but if I moved to quickly it would go solid. If I was part way through when it went solid, I'd have to break the wall to get unstuck.

For the most part, I could push through walls without feeling any resistance, except just at the beginning of my efforts. Typically I would move into other rooms or outside. Really you are largely depending on associations or expectations from waking.

Some newbee lucid dreamers try to fly by flapping their arms. That's an example of trying to control the dream through the dream ego. The real effort is in focus and expectation. You can use what you learned from movie special effects as a valid frame of reference for the visualizations in lucid dreams, and that sure beats OBE and spiritualistic frames of references, which have too much unnecessary baggage.
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19-04-2017, 12:14 PM
RE: Brain Games-Lucid dreaming,OBEs & hallucinations
(28-03-2017 02:55 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I have lucid dreams often and most of the time, I can control them. I didn't see that option, so I didn't vote Big Grin For me, I've always been able to do it. I do think yoga and meditation probably have helped even more though. But never had an OBE, I think that's woo, imo.

You=me. My dreams are vivid and I typically remember them in great detail. I have been aware of them and had control while having them (often but randomly) ever since I was a little kid (like, "Oh, I'll have to tell that person they were in my dream when I wake up," and, "This one didn't go well last time; let me try a different way to end it"). I have never tried, so I don't have any tips for anybody. I did mostly resolve my arachophobia, however, through a series of dreams I had throughout my 20s. Well, that and lots of computer RPGs. Spider caves are to RPGs what sewer levels are to FPSs.

No OBEs for me, though. I can't really imagine what that would be like.

I also have done yoga for flexibility, strength, and pain relief. I did meditation with a group for a short while in college--a very no-frills thing, no religious teaching, no mantras, no woo, no candles and music--and I would go as far as to say that it changed my life, in the sense that it introduced me to a technique for managing my anxiety (and thus anger, fear, pain, all that crap) that I'd never had before. I've looked for a similar group since but no such luck. I can still draw on it, though, from time to time. I know that if I did it regularly, it would really help my mental state.
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19-04-2017, 12:28 PM
RE: Brain Games-Lucid dreaming,OBEs & hallucinations
(01-04-2017 06:15 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 04:34 PM)unsapien Wrote:  Yes that's right. The best way to think about it is that everything you see and touch is YOU. The rock or tree that you might see across a field is as much you as your dream body. First time I tried changing something I was in a big open field in grass up to my knees, I felt the grass blowing against my legs, then I looked at the grass further away and thought about how it would/does feel the same way, after a while I could feel "connected" to all the grass in the field, then I thought about making the grass higher as if I was pulling it out ground, and the whole field of grass rose up about a foot or so.


For me walls are like a sort of non-Newtonian fluid, where if I pushed softly and slowly I could push through, but if I moved to quickly it would go solid. If I was part way through when it went solid, I'd have to break the wall to get unstuck.

For the most part, I could push through walls without feeling any resistance, except just at the beginning of my efforts. Typically I would move into other rooms or outside. Really you are largely depending on associations or expectations from waking.

Some newbee lucid dreamers try to fly by flapping their arms. That's an example of trying to control the dream through the dream ego. The real effort is in focus and expectation. You can use what you learned from movie special effects as a valid frame of reference for the visualizations in lucid dreams, and that sure beats OBE and spiritualistic frames of references, which have too much unnecessary baggage.

I learned about Freud's structural model of the psyche when I was very young, maybe 6 or 7, because of a nightmare I had in which I was a toddler being kidnapped in an elaborate plan, and I was an adolescent trying to stop the plan and save toddler me, and I was also a consciousness literally in the clouds watching the whole thing play out below with detachment. I cried for my mom and told her about the dream, and thus, little kmc learned about Freud for the first time. I ended up having the dream again later and played it out differently.
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20-04-2017, 08:23 AM (This post was last modified: 20-04-2017 08:43 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Brain Games-Lucid dreaming,OBEs & hallucinations
(31-03-2017 03:41 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 01:47 PM)Loom Wrote:  I've had many dreams where something good or bad happens and I realize it's not real, only to 'wake up' in my dream and realize I'M STILL DREAMING.

When I was recording all of my lucid dreams, I had false awakenings much more frequently. The reason is pretty simple. When you realize you are dreaming, you expect to wake up, especially when the scene fades away (which too often happens). That expectation itself can create the dream scene of a false awakening. I can't tell you how many times I had to try to wake myself again to record a lucid dream when I discovered I was still dreaming.

My wife laughed at me for that. She kept telling me that if I realize I am still dreaming in a false awakening, I shouldn't wake myself but continue to enjoy a new lucid dream. However I never got in that habit, because I didn't want to forget the dream I had just before during a new dream. Dream memories don't last long.


Didn't know the term for that was false awakenings. Those I find to be the real mind fucks. It's like well then how the hell I know I ain't dreaming now mind-fucked. It's not like I have a 100% track record. "Dream ego" is another apt term I hadn't heard before. Big Grin

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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20-04-2017, 08:27 AM
RE: Brain Games-Lucid dreaming,OBEs & hallucinations
(01-04-2017 04:34 PM)unsapien Wrote:  
(31-03-2017 03:50 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  Many people fail because they try to control their dreams through the efforts of the dream ego, the person you are playing in the dream. If you remember you are actually the dreamer, you can control your expectations and thoughts to control your dreams. That's really all that's involved.

Yes that's right. The best way to think about it is that everything you see and touch is YOU.

There is no spoon. You fuckers are batshit bonkers. I like you. You may stay.

Also, when do you actually get the business of sleep done like clearing out all the amyloids plotting your eventual demise? Guess you could dream that too. Consider

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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20-04-2017, 08:42 AM
RE: Brain Games-Lucid dreaming,OBEs & hallucinations
(19-04-2017 12:14 PM)kmc Wrote:  No OBEs for me, though. I can't really imagine what that would be like.

Best way I can describe mine is that my GoPro was 4 feet above my head looking down from the corner of the ceiling. Still tethered though. But by a string, not a pole. It occurred to me that I probably shouldn't sever that chord. Saw a bald spot in the middle of my hair as I turned back to descend the stair. (Do I dare? So how should I presume? And how should I presume? And should I then presume? And how should I begin?)

My OBEs happened while I was awake from pharmaceutical disassociatives. Damn, that's been like 3 or 4 decades now. Probably time for another grounding. Maybe I'll grow some Vinho de Jurema or some confused canary-grass this go round. Confused canary sounds interesting. Big Grin

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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