Brain vs soul.
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16-03-2017, 02:44 PM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(16-03-2017 02:40 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 02:32 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I can only hope our robot overlords will hug me and squeeze me and call me George.

Why? Is your name "George"? Hobo

The way I see it you'll either end up as a pet or as pet food. I'm shooting for pet.




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16-03-2017, 03:02 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2017 03:21 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Brain vs soul.
(16-03-2017 02:20 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Trimming things down for brevity...


(16-03-2017 01:42 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  I can't fathom what a Soul is but I can fathom what it does.

So... you have no idea/concept of what a 'soul' actually is?

(16-03-2017 01:42 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  A Soul causes "self awareness" or "self-interact-ability"

But you can throw out an assertion of what this unknown thing does?

Even after people have pointed out that a being's awareness demonstrable changes when the brain of said awareness is under different effects/damage?

Consider

The first point needs more explanation, definitely.

The second point needs to be addressed.

Other wise we're back to talking to Naeliss about 'Duality' again.
Yes. It's not unheard of. We have many examples of knowing what something does without knowing what it is.
Gravity, Black Holes, Dark Energy & Dark Matter.
We throw around these assertions every day.

Why do people always run head first into this trap? You should see it coming a mile away.

When did I say "awareness" does not decrease when brain activity decreases?
You are confusing "awareness" with "self awareness".

If you say "awareness" decreases when brain activity decreases I won't object, but that's not what people are saying.
It's not my fault they conflate "awareness" & "self awareness"
A decrease in awareness is not a decrease in self awareness.
A decrease in awareness simply means you are less aware of your environment.
A decrease in self awareness simply means you are less aware of your identity (a sense of self)

Decreased brain function does not decrease your sense of "self".
When your vital signs begin to fade you don't start thinking you are someone else, or that you don't exist or that you're part of another organism now do yo you?
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16-03-2017, 03:23 PM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(16-03-2017 01:14 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 01:07 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Is this the brain-in-the-vat argument?

I hope I'm not presenting it that way. Brain-in-the-vat is more designed to thwart attempts at refuting solipsism. I'm suggesting that it's not worth refuting because its fundamental premise is unsound. There's no point in debating the validity of an argument if its premises are unsound. While trying to prove the opposite, Descartes' inadvertently showed that the premise is unfounded and groundless.

Thanks! This makes far more sense now. Smile


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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16-03-2017, 03:42 PM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(16-03-2017 03:02 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 02:20 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Trimming things down for brevity...



So... you have no idea/concept of what a 'soul' actually is?


But you can throw out an assertion of what this unknown thing does?

Even after people have pointed out that a being's awareness demonstrable changes when the brain of said awareness is under different effects/damage?

Consider

The first point needs more explanation, definitely.

The second point needs to be addressed.

Other wise we're back to talking to Naeliss about 'Duality' again.
Yes. It's not unheard of. We have many examples of knowing what something does without knowing what it is.
Gravity, Black Holes, Dark Energy & Dark Matter.
We throw around these assertions every day.

Why do people always run head first into this trap? You should see it coming a mile away.

When did I say "awareness" does not decrease when brain activity decreases?
You are confusing "awareness" with "self awareness".

If you say "awareness" decreases when brain activity decreases I won't object, but that's not what people are saying.
It's not my fault they conflate "awareness" & "self awareness"
A decrease in awareness is not a decrease in self awareness.
A decrease in awareness simply means you are less aware of your environment.
A decrease in self awareness simply means you are less aware of your identity (a sense of self)

Decreased brain function does not decrease your sense of "self".
When your vital signs begin to fade you don't start thinking you are someone else, or that you don't exist or that you're part of another organism now do yo you?

You still fail to address the fact that Gravity is demonstrable, testable, falsifiable.

The soul is not.

You seem to be conflating an idea you like, with reality. (Just so your clear, your gravity analogy is full of shit is what I'm saying)

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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16-03-2017, 04:09 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2017 04:21 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Brain vs soul.
(16-03-2017 03:42 PM)JesseB Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 03:02 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Yes. It's not unheard of. We have many examples of knowing what something does without knowing what it is.
Gravity, Black Holes, Dark Energy & Dark Matter.
We throw around these assertions every day.

Why do people always run head first into this trap? You should see it coming a mile away.

When did I say "awareness" does not decrease when brain activity decreases?
You are confusing "awareness" with "self awareness".

If you say "awareness" decreases when brain activity decreases I won't object, but that's not what people are saying.
It's not my fault they conflate "awareness" & "self awareness"
A decrease in awareness is not a decrease in self awareness.
A decrease in awareness simply means you are less aware of your environment.
A decrease in self awareness simply means you are less aware of your identity (a sense of self)

Decreased brain function does not decrease your sense of "self".
When your vital signs begin to fade you don't start thinking you are someone else, or that you don't exist or that you're part of another organism now do yo you?

You still fail to address the fact that Gravity is demonstrable, testable, falsifiable.

The soul is not.

You seem to be conflating an idea you like, with reality. (Just so your clear, your gravity analogy is full of shit is what I'm saying)
Conflating what idea? I'm not a Theist.
You said "The soul IS not." as if to say I posit what a soul IS.
I don't posit what a Soul IS, I only posit what a Soul DOES.
You used the word "seem" because that's what it appears like to you. It "appeared" as if I am using the word "IS". It's an illusion based on your biases. You are too accustomed debating theists that it's almost impossible for you to debate an atheist.
All I'm stating there is an unseen force that differentiates the living from the dead.
This force is demonstrable, testable & falsifiable just like gravity.
Don't believe me?
Let's ask wiki.

Life:
Life is a characteristic distinguishing physical entities having biological processes, such as signaling and self-sustaining processes, from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased, or because they never had such functions and are classified as inanimate.

freedictionary.com
Function:
The action or purpose for which a person or thing is suited or employed

Everything above tells us what life does & not what it is just like the definition of Gravity.
And.
Just like Gravity it is demonstrable, testable & falsifiable.
What's wrong with people claiming the cause of life is a Soul? It's just a word that describes an unseen driving force which makes life possible.

You seem to be conflating an idea you like, with reality. (Just so your clear, your "soul is not demonstrable, testable & falsifiable" analogy is full of shit is what I'm saying)
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16-03-2017, 04:14 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2017 04:18 PM by JesseB.)
RE: Brain vs soul.
(16-03-2017 04:09 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 03:42 PM)JesseB Wrote:  You still fail to address the fact that Gravity is demonstrable, testable, falsifiable.

The soul is not.

You seem to be conflating an idea you like, with reality. (Just so your clear, your gravity analogy is full of shit is what I'm saying)
Conflating what idea? I'm not a Theist.
You said "The soul IS not." as if to say I posit what a soul IS.
I don't posit what a Soul IS, I only posit what a Soul DOES.
You used the word "seem" because that's what it appears like to you. It "appeared" as if I am using the word "IS". It's an illusion based on your biases. You are too accustomed debating theists that it's almost impossible for you to debate an atheist.
All I'm stating there is an unseen force that differentiates the living from the dead.
This force is demonstrable, testable & falsifiable just like gravity.
Don't believe me?
Let's ask wiki.

Life:
Life is a characteristic distinguishing physical entities having biological processes, such as signaling and self-sustaining processes, from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased, or because they never had such functions and are classified as inanimate.

Everything above tells us what life does & not what it is just like the definition of Gravity.
And.
Just like Gravity it is demonstrable, testable & falsifiable.

You seem to be conflating an idea you like, with reality. (Just so your clear, your "soul is not demonstrable, testable & falsifiable" analogy is full of shit is what I'm saying)


I didn't say you are a Theist, nor did I intend to imply it.

The soul can't do a fucking thing if it doesn't exist. which is the fucking POINT. Zoom right over your head it went.

and that's the idea you're conflating the existence of the soul. It's nothing more than an idea with no basis in reality. Comparing it to gravity is incorrect, for reasons I've stated 4 or 5 times now..... Seriously dude are you reading anything I bother writing? ......

Perhaps you just see whatever you want to see when people type at you, hear what you want to hear when they speak to you.... It would be nice if you could pull it together a bit more though.

(IF you say that the soul is just an idea with no bearing on reality, then I won't challenge you on it. There's nothing wrong with people having an idea they like... I like Harry Potter... I don't try to impose it on the real world though)


wait..... I just noticed your last point.... really dude? Ok this is a waste of fucking time.... You need to go back to school, learn a bit about the scientific method. Otherwise we'll never get fucking anywhere.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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16-03-2017, 04:18 PM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(16-03-2017 04:09 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ---
Just so your clear, your "soul is not demonstrable, testable & falsifiable" analogy is full of shit is what I'm saying---

Please demonstrate, test & falsify soul. Thanks.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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16-03-2017, 04:19 PM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(16-03-2017 03:02 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  If you say "awareness" decreases when brain activity decreases I won't object, but that's not what people are saying.
It's not my fault they conflate "awareness" & "self awareness"
A decrease in awareness is not a decrease in self awareness.
A decrease in awareness simply means you are less aware of your environment.
A decrease in self awareness simply means you are less aware of your identity (a sense of self)

Does this guy have a never-ending supply of this sort of meaningless bullshit to draw on?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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16-03-2017, 04:41 PM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(16-03-2017 04:19 PM)SYZ Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 03:02 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  If you say "awareness" decreases when brain activity decreases I won't object, but that's not what people are saying.
It's not my fault they conflate "awareness" & "self awareness"
A decrease in awareness is not a decrease in self awareness.
A decrease in awareness simply means you are less aware of your environment.
A decrease in self awareness simply means you are less aware of your identity (a sense of self)

Does this guy have a never-ending supply of this sort of meaningless bullshit to draw on?

He doesn't get it. He goes around in circles.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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16-03-2017, 04:46 PM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(16-03-2017 04:41 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 04:19 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Does this guy have a never-ending supply of this sort of meaningless bullshit to draw on?

He doesn't get it. He goes around in circles.

Like a dog chasing his own ass....

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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