Brain vs soul.
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18-03-2017, 08:37 AM (This post was last modified: 18-03-2017 08:41 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Brain vs soul.
(18-03-2017 08:03 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 06:08 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Why are you conflating Best Method with Absolute Truth? Dodgy
Best Method ≠ Absolute Truth
Best Method = Best Method
And now we are back to:
If you need X to prove X then you cannot prove X. Facepalm

Except you are assuming Absolute Truth™ both exists and is required, both of which are unfounded assumptions. Drinking Beverage

Philosophy has been debating the nature of Truth since it's foundation. But really, if you have a definitive universal definition that all can agree upon, go right the fuck ahead. Then we can work on falsifying that.


(18-03-2017 06:08 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  That you are illiterate it seems. Weeping

Yeah, what is your point?

Oh right, you incorrectly assume that Absolute Truth™ exists and is required to debunk your bullshit. Funny thing that...


(18-03-2017 06:08 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Firstly,
I do not posit the existence of supernatural souls. So cut that dishonest shit out bitch Dodgy

Unless you have the evidence to back up the theory of body/mind duality, as in you have evidence that it exists and how it works? That you have hitherto unknown insights into the function of both biology and physics, to give support for a process that is otherwise entirely undetectable by any current known means to science?

Yeah, you are deep into supernatural woo-woo bullshit territory. Suck it up buttercup. Drinking Beverage


(18-03-2017 06:08 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Secondly,
There is no evidence that self awareness comes from the body or the brain either.

Yo cunt! Mirror experiment. Self awareness appears to be correlated to cognitive function, and operates on a gradient. Meaning that as you move lower and lower down the scale of high level cognitive functionality, you get further and further away from human levels of self awareness. Somewhere along that gradient (well before jellyfish) you pass the point where such functions simply cannot be supported by the creature's available grey matter, and self awareness is not able to emerge because their wetware lacks sufficient complexity.

Because if jellyfish are truly self aware, with all of the evolutionary advantages that brings, then how come other species kept evolving larger and larger brains? They're the most calorie intensive organ in our bodies, and evolutionary speaking, are very risky and expensive. So much so that our distant cousins, Homo neanderthalensis, might have very well suffered greater extinction pressure because their larger than human brains cost too much in resources for them to be competitive with humans in the last ice age; their brains were too large and costly. Homo sapiens, with their relatively smaller brains, were comparatively more efficient; and thus better adapted to the current environment, given the relative scarcity of resources during the ice age.

Plus, humans with brain trauma and other born with certain genetic disabilities that can hamper the mind also show diminished cognitive function. So, you know, the state of the mind appears to be directly tied to the brain itself. If not, then how do anti-depressant work?


(18-03-2017 06:08 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Thirdly,
When someone says "it is more rational to believe", they aren't speaking about knowledge of what that thing IS. They are speaking about knowledge of what that thing COULD BE.

An example of rational belief without knowing what something IS , is the prediction of Quarks & the Higs Boson.
The pursuit of this belief is what eventually led to the discovery of Quarks & the Higs Boson.

Please try to keep up with the conversation Drinking Beverage

Dude, you are out in fucking la-la land. You are advocating for mind-body duality, which means that everything we know about biology, neurology, and physics is currently stacked against you. You don't even have theoretical models and hypothetical experiments backing you up. Comparing yourself to quantum physicists is fucking sad and hilarious. You got nothing to say but 'you can't prove me wrong without Absolute Truth™' which, as already noted, isn't so much an argument as it is a logical fallacy.

Fuckin' bush league son.
You claim "biology, neurology, and physics" is against mind-body duality.
Citation? Watch how you ignore this simple request.
Your claim is just an opinion until you provide some evidence.

A lack of evidence does not falsify a claim. There are ways to falsify a claim, why don't you use them instead of throwing your unsubstantiated opinions around?

I do not posit absolute truths.
Read my signature.
I posit the validity of a claim based on current knowledge.

Absolute truths aka Reality requires none subjective interpretation. There is no such thing as none subjective interpretation therefore Absolute truths are historically unreachable.
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18-03-2017, 09:17 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
Why are some people using a mirror experiment to prove self awareness?
For something to be self aware it has to recognize "the self". It says so in the definition of self awareness.
It does not say it has to recognize an IMAGE, REFLECTION OR PICTURE of itself
"The Self" is the actual creature, not it's reflection.
Stop conflating the two. This is so basic to understand.
The mere fact that it eats is proof that it is AWAREof a need to feed THE SELF

There clearly is something wrong with the way many of you interpret things.
Try this:
If a bat & a ball cost $1.10 total & the bat is $1 more than the ball, how much is the ball?
I bet most of you will say $10 cents.
It's 5 cents btw.
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18-03-2017, 09:18 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(18-03-2017 01:25 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I hope this doesn't distract from the conversation but is anyone here competent with IT?

For a week now I've been trying to load an application over my laptop.

Not on it. Over it. About 2cm above it.

I simply can't get it to work.

Any suggestions?

You have to lift your left leg and purse your lips just right. In the field we call it "chicken lipping". It takes quite a bit of practice so keep at it. You'll get it. Thumbsup

#sigh
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18-03-2017, 09:23 AM (This post was last modified: 18-03-2017 09:27 AM by kim.)
RE: Brain vs soul.
(18-03-2017 12:22 AM)JesseB Wrote:  Shane... let me ask you a serious question... Are you just trolling? or do you really think this?

Nah, he's a poe.
No one can possibly be this stupid and still feed themselves. Drinking Beverage
***

No, AShane is a clipper.
He clips words & phrases from dictionaries and encyclopedias, tosses them into a hat and then dumps the hat over to arrange the words in lines.

Kinda sad that he's so resentful of maths & science that he can do nothing but misuse and finally bad-mouth them. He simply can't figure out how to use them correctly in order to express himself - the saddest thing of all.

He has no idea that math & science are simply tools and that all tools come with opperating instructions. Being unfamiliar with and/or ignoring a tool's opperating instructions is a very bad idea.

One day, he's gonna put his eye out. Angel

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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18-03-2017, 09:52 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(18-03-2017 09:23 AM)kim Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 12:22 AM)JesseB Wrote:  Shane... let me ask you a serious question... Are you just trolling? or do you really think this?

Nah, he's a poe.
No one can possibly be this stupid and still feed themselves. Drinking Beverage
***

No, AShane is a clipper.
He clips words & phrases from dictionaries and encyclopedias, tosses them into a hat and then dumps the hat over to arrange the words in lines.

Kinda sad that he's so resentful of maths & science that he can do nothing but misuse and finally bad-mouth them. He simply can't figure out how to use them correctly in order to express himself - the saddest thing of all.

He has no idea that math & science are simply tools and that all tools come with opperating instructions. Being unfamiliar with and/or ignoring a tool's opperating instructions is a very bad idea.

One day, he's gonna put his eye out. Angel

I think you're right. Therefor I'm out. Shane you don't get to waste anymore of my time.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
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18-03-2017, 10:05 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(16-03-2017 07:18 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 09:23 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Do you see what you did there?
...
Back to Semantics again?
Wiki:
An observer is one who engages in observation or in watching an experiment.
An Iphone does not of it's own self engage in anything. It does not decide to observe unless it is instructed & programmed to do so.
So no No, an Iphone cannot be self aware based on my definition of Self Awareness.

We keep doing this back & forth & you keep ignoring my counter rebuttals.
If I am wrong how am I to learn if you don't address my counter rebuttals?
Can you at least address this one before jumping to another counter argument.
For the sake of good debating if nothing else.

I'm begging you to take the whip & hit me, but all you keep doing is brandishing it very mildly.

Bolding, mine.

Moms,

I kinda lost interest in this one when he changed his definition of 'Awareness' from "Awareness = Having the ability to receive information" to "observer" to evade my iPhone rebuttal.

This is not some who is here to learn. This is deliberate obfuscation.

If you want to use a hammer rather than a whip, I have no objection.

Others may still be enjoying the thrust and parry so they can continue if they choose but as far as I'm concened, it's bedtime for Shane.

Wink

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18-03-2017, 10:15 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(18-03-2017 10:05 AM)DLJ Wrote:  If you want to use a hammer rather than a whip, I have no objection.

My only question would be whether we are troll-heavy or troll-light at the moment. You always need a couple around or the natives get restless and before you know it, bang Creutzfeldt–Jakob.

#sigh
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18-03-2017, 10:21 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(18-03-2017 10:15 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 10:05 AM)DLJ Wrote:  If you want to use a hammer rather than a whip, I have no objection.

My only question would be whether we are troll-heavy or troll-light at the moment. You always need a couple around or the natives get restless and before you know it, bang Creutzfeldt–Jakob.

This is true.

Bear in mind that the Festival of the Arisen Nut-job (no, not Johnny Cantor, I mean Easter) will soon be upon us and we will be getting the usual seasonal influx of Trolls.

But like I said, if others think there is still some mileage in this one, have at it.

Thumbsup

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18-03-2017, 10:27 AM (This post was last modified: 18-03-2017 10:35 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Brain vs soul.
(18-03-2017 10:21 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 10:15 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  My only question would be whether we are troll-heavy or troll-light at the moment. You always need a couple around or the natives get restless and before you know it, bang Creutzfeldt–Jakob.

This is true.

Bear in mind that the Festival of the Arisen Nut-job (no, not Johnny Cantor, I mean Easter) will soon be upon us and we will be getting the usual seasonal influx of Trolls.

But like I said, if others think there is still some mileage in this one, have at it.

Thumbsup

I wasn't interested in this one from the gitgo. Just doesn't have that je ne sais quoi which makes the others amusing to a point. This one's just another dick.

#sigh
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18-03-2017, 10:38 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(18-03-2017 10:27 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 10:21 AM)DLJ Wrote:  This is true.

Bear in mind that the Festival of the Arisen Nut-job (no, not Johnny Cantor, I mean Easter) will soon be upon us and we will be getting the usual seasonal influx of Trolls.

But like I said, if others think there is still some mileage in this one, have at it.

Thumbsup

I wasn't interested in this one from the gitgo. Just doesn't have that je ne sais quoi which makes the others amusing to a point.

Yes, what little there was of this turd, it just didn't have that innate, glossy sheen.

We are disappoint. Undecided

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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