Brain vs soul.
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19-03-2017, 10:32 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 10:41 AM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Brain vs soul.
(19-03-2017 08:41 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 08:10 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Self Awareness IS a pre-requisite of life.
The Immortal Worm - Planarian can be cut into 279 pieces and each piece will become a new living organism

They are considered to be alive because:
Life is a characteristic distinguishing physical entities having biological processes, such as signaling and self-sustaining processes, from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased, or because they never had such functions and are classified as inanimate

Yep. Single celled bacterium are self-aware folks. You heard it here first... Dodgy

Congrats AS, you've neutered 'self-aware' into near meaninglessness with your overly broad and inept personal interpretation.



Self-awareness is the capacity for introspection and the ability to recognize oneself as an individual separate from the environment and other individuals. It is not to be confused with consciousness in the sense of qualia. While consciousness is a term given to being aware of one's environment and body and lifestyle, self-awareness is the recognition of that awareness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness

Sweet holy fuck, stop making up your own definitions and acting like we need to adhere to your ad-hoc usage.
Sweet holy fuck x 2
The problem lies with your comprehension skills.

Self awareness is not awareness or introspection
Facepalm
Self Awareness is the CAPACITY for introspection & the ABILITY to recognize oneself among other things
Drinking Beverage

eg. Bucky has the CAPACITY to speak Arabic but this does not mean that he has the ABILITY to speak ARABIC

Ability = Actual skill, either mental or physical; native or acquired. Capacity = Potential to develop a skill, usually mental; native, as opposed to acquired. 1. Ability, capacity, capability

You lack the cognitive ability to make the distinction between a capacity & an ability Smartass

This CAPACITY/ABILITY is manifest at birth. Bucky even provided you with proof of this in these articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_cog...evelopment says:
"Right from birth infants are able to differentiate the self from the non-self"
This is evidence that self awareness is not emergent, but rather that we are born with it.

http://www.psychology.emory.edu/cognitio...levels.pdf says:
"infants from birth manifest an implicit sense of themselves"
This means self awareness is not emergent after birth & it does not make the claim that it is caused by birth either. Manifest means inherently obvious.

ALL LIVING things are born with "the CAPACITY for introspection & the ABILITY to recognize oneself" among other things.

Life is a characteristic distinguishing physical entities having biological processes, such as signaling and self-sustaining processes, from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased, or because they never had such functions and are classified as inanimate.

Bacteria, Immortal Worms, Octopus Arms & Portuguese Man-O-Wars all have LIFE

So. The answer is YES they are self aware because they have LIFE

Just because you don't like how something sounds doesn't mean it isn't true.
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19-03-2017, 10:42 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(19-03-2017 10:32 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 08:41 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Yep. Single celled bacterium are self-aware folks. You heard it here first... Dodgy

Congrats AS, you've neutered 'self-aware' into near meaninglessness with your overly broad and inept personal interpretation.



Self-awareness is the capacity for introspection and the ability to recognize oneself as an individual separate from the environment and other individuals. It is not to be confused with consciousness in the sense of qualia. While consciousness is a term given to being aware of one's environment and body and lifestyle, self-awareness is the recognition of that awareness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness

Sweet holy fuck, stop making up your own definitions and acting like we need to adhere to your ad-hoc usage.
Sweet holy fuck x 2
The problem lies with your comprehension skills.

Self awareness is not awareness or introspection
Facepalm
Self Awareness is the CAPACITY for introspection & the ABILITY to recognize oneself among other things
Drinking Beverage

eg. Bucky has the CAPACITY to speak Arabic but this does not mean that he has the ABILITY to speak ARABIC

Ability = Actual skill, either mental or physical; native or acquired. Capacity = Potential to develop a skill, usually mental; native, as opposed to acquired. 1. Ability, capacity, capability

You lack the cognitive ability to make the distinction between a capacity & an ability Smartass

This CAPACITY/ABILITY is manifest at birth. Bucky even provided you with proof of this in these articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_cog...evelopment says:
"Right from birth infants are able to differentiate the self from the non-self"
This is evidence that self awareness is not emergent, but rather that we are born with it.

http://www.psychology.emory.edu/cognitio...levels.pdf says:
"infants from birth manifest an implicit sense of themselves"
This means self awareness is not emergent after birth & it does not make the claim that it is caused by birth either. Manifest means inherently obvious.

ALL LIVING things are born with "the CAPACITY for introspection & the ABILITY to recognize oneself" among other things.

Bacteria, Immortal Worms, Octopus Arms & Portuguese Man-O-Wars are all living things

So. The answer is YES they are self aware because they have "the CAPACITY for introspection & the ABILITY to recognize oneself" among other things.

Just because you don't like how something sounds doesn't mean it isn't true.

No that's not correct. At all.

You keep trying to move the goal post to line up with your presuppositional ideas but it's not working.

Again there is a difference between having spatial awareness and being cognitively self-aware.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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19-03-2017, 10:47 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(19-03-2017 10:42 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 10:32 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Sweet holy fuck x 2
The problem lies with your comprehension skills.

Self awareness is not awareness or introspection
Facepalm
Self Awareness is the CAPACITY for introspection & the ABILITY to recognize oneself among other things
Drinking Beverage

eg. Bucky has the CAPACITY to speak Arabic but this does not mean that he has the ABILITY to speak ARABIC

Ability = Actual skill, either mental or physical; native or acquired. Capacity = Potential to develop a skill, usually mental; native, as opposed to acquired. 1. Ability, capacity, capability

You lack the cognitive ability to make the distinction between a capacity & an ability Smartass

This CAPACITY/ABILITY is manifest at birth. Bucky even provided you with proof of this in these articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_cog...evelopment says:
"Right from birth infants are able to differentiate the self from the non-self"
This is evidence that self awareness is not emergent, but rather that we are born with it.

http://www.psychology.emory.edu/cognitio...levels.pdf says:
"infants from birth manifest an implicit sense of themselves"
This means self awareness is not emergent after birth & it does not make the claim that it is caused by birth either. Manifest means inherently obvious.

ALL LIVING things are born with "the CAPACITY for introspection & the ABILITY to recognize oneself" among other things.

Bacteria, Immortal Worms, Octopus Arms & Portuguese Man-O-Wars are all living things

So. The answer is YES they are self aware because they have "the CAPACITY for introspection & the ABILITY to recognize oneself" among other things.

Just because you don't like how something sounds doesn't mean it isn't true.

No that's not correct. At all.

You keep trying to move the goal post to line up with your presuppositional ideas but it's not working.

Again there is a difference between having spatial awareness and being cognitively self-aware.
That would be fine Mom.
But the Goal post in this particular instance is the product of Evo's opinion & this whole debate is about us establishing the goal post before we can even begin to talk about Brains vs Souls.

He claims/posits that self awareness is not manifest in bacteria, etc.
When he presents his evidence for peer review it was found to be misleading because he misunderstood the meaning of self awareness.
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19-03-2017, 10:47 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
I should also note that I rarely participate in any discussions in this section because philosophy isn't a subject I like. I hated it in college. Usually the conversations here too heady for me.

This one isn't...so what does that say about Shane? His less-than elementary understandings of basic biology are ignorant enough for even me to comment on.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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19-03-2017, 10:51 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(19-03-2017 10:47 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I should also note that I rarely participate in any discussions in this section because philosophy isn't a subject I like. I hated it in college. Usually the conversations here too heady for me.

This one isn't...so what does that say about Shane? His less-than elementary understandings of basic biology are ignorant enough for even me to comment on.
Your opinion is duly noted all the same. Not necessarily true but taken in a positive light Smile
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19-03-2017, 10:52 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(19-03-2017 10:47 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I should also note that I rarely participate in any discussions in this section because philosophy isn't a subject I like. I hated it in college. Usually the conversations here too heady for me.

This one isn't...so what does that say about Shane? His less-than elementary understandings of basic biology are ignorant enough for even me to comment on.

I'm with you, Moms. Thumbsup


Also, I just get so disgusted when someone has no basic understanding of evolution. Dodgy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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19-03-2017, 10:53 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(19-03-2017 10:47 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 10:42 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  No that's not correct. At all.

You keep trying to move the goal post to line up with your presuppositional ideas but it's not working.

Again there is a difference between having spatial awareness and being cognitively self-aware.
That would be fine Mom.
But the Goal post in this particular instance is the product of Evo's opinion & this whole debate is about us establishing the goal post before we can even begin to talk about Brains vs Souls.

No Shane, you keep conflating that any creature who is spatially aware must also be somehow self aware. I've already explained (along with many others including EK) why this is wrong earlier in this thread. Repeating something fundamentally false will not suddenly make it true just because you keep repeating it.

The worm you mentioned might have spatial awareness (and really that might be debatable), but it doesn't mean they have cognitive anything. Being able to cut them up into a hundred pieces and have them regrow their bodies is meaningless to this discussion.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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19-03-2017, 10:55 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(19-03-2017 10:17 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(19-03-2017 09:35 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Measurements are reported of the cross-correlation of spectra of differential position signals from the Fermilab Holometer, a pair of colocated 39 m long, high power Michelson interferometers with flat broadband frequency response in the MHz range. The instrument obtains sensitivity to high frequency correlated signals far exceeding any previous measurement in a broad frequency band extending beyond the 3.8 MHz inverse light-crossing time of the apparatus. The dominant but uncorrelated shot noise is averaged down over 2×10^8 independent spectral measurements with 381 Hz frequency resolution to obtain 2.1×10^−20m/√Hz sensitivity to stationary signals. For signal bandwidths Δf >11kHz, the sensitivity to strain h or shear power spectral density of classical or exotic origin surpasses a milestone PSD δh<tp where tp=5.39×10^−44/Hz is the Planck time.

Yeah, that makes sense. Although I think there should've been a comma after the phrase "a broad frequency band" in the second line.

What I don't understand is why they even needed to test something so obvious in the first place? Waste of taxpayer dollars if you ask me.

#sigh
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19-03-2017, 10:56 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(19-03-2017 10:51 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Your opinion is duly noted all the same. Not necessarily true but taken in a positive light Smile

So ... now you are saying .... Mom's opinion is not true?!

There could be a smite in your future. Angel

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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19-03-2017, 11:06 AM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2017 11:11 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Brain vs soul.
(19-03-2017 10:32 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ALL LIVING things are born with "the CAPACITY for introspection & the ABILITY to recognize oneself" among other things.

Bacteria, Immortal Worms, Octopus Arms & Portuguese Man-O-Wars all have LIFE

So. The answer is YES they are self aware because they have LIFE

Called it. Just another biocentrism Robert Lanza ripoff wannabe.

#sigh
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