Brain vs soul.
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15-03-2017, 06:02 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(14-03-2017 06:55 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Oh and I'm still waiting for the citation that says consciousness/self awareness is brain function.

Here are a few, just for fun:

Consciousness Is the Whole Brain. It's Not Reducible.

...the scientific evidence is on the side of consciousness being an emergent property.

Scientific Understanding of Consciousness

No "soul" or "God" required.

If you have evidence for either, let's see it, properly documented, peer-reviewed, tested and predictive.
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15-03-2017, 06:02 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(15-03-2017 05:46 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  The self is an incoherent concept without first defining what a soul is.

What makes you you?

The soul is an incoherent concept without dualism. Dualism has no evidence to support it.

Brain function is what makes me me.
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15-03-2017, 06:12 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
I had a soul. I sold it to Gwynnies for satan. Evil_monster

living word
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15-03-2017, 06:30 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(15-03-2017 06:02 AM)Rik Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 05:46 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  The self is an incoherent concept without first defining what a soul is.

What makes you you?

The soul is an incoherent concept without dualism. Dualism has no evidence to support it.

Brain function is what makes me me.
Firstly, not finding evidence to support the existence of something does not mean that it objectively does not exist. It simply means that the something is not known to exist.

Now unto my reply
You said:
"Dualism has no evidence to support it."
What do you mean by "dualism has no evidence to support it"?

Dualism is a well studied field in quantum mechanics.
Have you never heard of:
Wave/Particle Duality
Super Imposed States
Bohr, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, Einstein all spoke about Dualism

Maybe you meant dualism between the brain and a soul has no evidence to support it.

All of this is besides the point when you consider this world could be no different than an extremely real video game and the true self (soul) is the one hooked up to the machine.
Our thoughts tell the game what we want to SEE but the main board can only SHOW us what we ask within the mechanics of the game.
Eg. We cannot tell the game we want to SEE Donkey Kong to turn into Rad Racer, but if we decide to SEE him jump the game will SHOW us him jumping.

All POSSIBLE realities exist within the fabric of the game, but only the ones we desire to see happen will be made available for our viewing.
Key word is possible, if we desire to see an impossible reality it will not be shown.

A soul is therefore not the one pulling the strings but rather just an observer using the mechanics of the brain/body to view this movie we call reality/life.
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15-03-2017, 06:54 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(15-03-2017 06:30 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Have you never heard of:
Wave/Particle Duality
Super Imposed States
Bohr, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, Einstein all spoke about Dualism

Re wave/particle duality, this came up in another thread.

Wave/particle duality is a false construct. Give up the notion of particles or waves and think more in fields. We perceive the fields as particles or waves depending upon the instruments we are using. Source: Real talk: Everything is made of fields

Einstein did consider dualistic properties of waves/particles but said absolutely nothing about dualism as a function of spirituality. Either you're confusing the two or being deliberately specious.
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15-03-2017, 07:35 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(15-03-2017 06:54 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 06:30 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Have you never heard of:
Wave/Particle Duality
Super Imposed States
Bohr, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, Einstein all spoke about Dualism

Re wave/particle duality, this came up in another thread.

Wave/particle duality is a false construct. Give up the notion of particles or waves and think more in fields. We perceive the fields as particles or waves depending upon the instruments we are using. Source: Real talk: Everything is made of fields

Einstein did consider dualistic properties of waves/particles but said absolutely nothing about dualism as a function of spirituality. Either you're confusing the two or being deliberately specious.
Please get your facts right:

I'm NOT the one confusing "dualism as a function of spirituality"
I'm NOT the one who brought up dualism.
The guy specifically said "There is no evidence of Dualism"
I addressed the issue of evidence for Dualism in Quantum Physics.

As you rightly said "Einstein did consider dualistic properties of waves/particles"
this is evidence FOR the existence of Dualism not against it.

You said "Either you're confusing the two or being deliberately specious."
How can this be the case?
I specifically stated "All of this is besides the point". This means I am not confusing the two, but instead, I am stating dualism is not relative to my point.

How about instead of you continuing to guess what I'm doing (& getting it wrong) I simply tell you what i'm doing.

I am making a case for the existence of a self aware being that exists regardless of the material construct of this world but has a relationship with this world via the human body.
If you are going to claim I have no evidence this TYPE of relationship exists then how would you describe the relationship between an rpg gamer and an rpg video game.
One might be tempted to state that the Gamer & the Game are all part of the same system & we should not try to separate the two. I have no problems with this approach. The problem lies when we claim uniqueness within this closed system & classify our state of being as "the Self" whilst at the same time maintaining we are simply the product of "Brain Function" in a much larger system.

Are you the stinger of a Portuguese Man or War?

We can't have our cake & eat it too.

Conclusion:
Any admittance of a self is an admittance of a soul.
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15-03-2017, 07:36 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(15-03-2017 06:30 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 06:02 AM)Rik Wrote:  The soul is an incoherent concept without dualism. Dualism has no evidence to support it.

Brain function is what makes me me.
Firstly, not finding evidence to support the existence of something does not mean that it objectively does not exist. It simply means that the something is not known to exist.

Now unto my reply
You said:
"Dualism has no evidence to support it."
What do you mean by "dualism has no evidence to support it"?

Dualism is a well studied field in quantum mechanics.
Have you never heard of:
Wave/Particle Duality
Super Imposed States
Bohr, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, Einstein all spoke about Dualism

Maybe you meant dualism between the brain and a soul has no evidence to support it.

Obviously.

Quote:All of this is besides the point when you consider this world could be no different than an extremely real video game and the true self (soul) is the one hooked up to the machine.

Pointless babble. If there is no way to falsify the idea it has no merit.

Quote:Our thoughts tell the game what we want to SEE but the main board can only SHOW us what we ask within the mechanics of the game.
Eg. We cannot tell the game we want to SEE Donkey Kong to turn into Rad Racer, but if we decide to SEE him jump the game will SHOW us him jumping.

All POSSIBLE realities exist within the fabric of the game, but only the ones we desire to see happen will be made available for our viewing.
Key word is possible, if we desire to see an impossible reality it will not be shown.

A soul is therefore not the one pulling the strings but rather just an observer using the mechanics of the brain/body to view this movie we call reality/life.

And how does this soul observe? With what does this soul think? Your wishful thinking is at about an eighth-grade level.
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15-03-2017, 07:39 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(15-03-2017 07:35 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Conclusion:
Any admittance of a self is an admittance of a soul.

Assertion without evidence, therefore it can be discarded as irrational.
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15-03-2017, 07:59 AM
RE: Brain vs soul.
(15-03-2017 07:39 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 07:35 AM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Conclusion:
Any admittance of a self is an admittance of a soul.

Assertion without evidence, therefore it can be discarded as irrational.
I do so love this game Smile Kinda like Chess
Checkmate:
Not all assertions without evidence can be discarded as irrational.
Take for example an Axiom.
Axioms are assertions without evidence
from wiki:
An axiom or postulate is a statement that is taken to be true, to serve as a premise or starting point for further reasoning and arguments.

I'm sure you have a winning argument somewhere but this wasn't it.

Back on topic:
Sam Harris claimed "The Self is just an Illusion". (it's another Axiom)
I'm not saying that he is wrong.
Can anyone explain what he means by this?
The problem lies when two Axioms conflict, only one can be true. Either "the Self" is real or it's an illusion.
Which assertion do you accept (believe in)?
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15-03-2017, 08:09 AM (This post was last modified: 15-03-2017 08:39 AM by DLJ.)
RE: Brain vs soul.
(14-03-2017 06:55 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  ...
Oh and I'm still waiting for the citation that says consciousness/self awareness is brain function.
...

Do you even VM?

Rolleyes

Here's a neuron:

[Image: neuron.jpg]

Here's another:

[Image: Neuron.GIF]

You now have two brain cells.

Please rub them together.

Big Grin

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