Breaking news: FBI Director Comey to deliver statement at 11 a.m. ET
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06-07-2016, 06:42 AM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 06:48 AM by Full Circle.)
RE: Breaking news: FBI Director Comey to deliver statement at 11 a.m. ET
(06-07-2016 04:20 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 03:17 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  What would you say about the judgement of a man who tells a lie one day and backtracks the next? What would you say about the judgement of a man who visits bankruptcy courts as if they were his Sunday sermons? What would you say about the judgement of a man running on a plank promising a confrontation with China over the South China Sea?

Yeah, I'm thinking your filters probably need a little calibration.

Trump has owned over 500 businesses, and people always have to bring up the 5 businesses that went under.

Those five bankruptcies were all casino/hotel related. Casino businesses are constantly going bankrupt. Even Caesar's casinos are going through problems right now. It's a risky business period.

Nothing Trump has done will ever equal what Hillary Clinton did. Jeopardizing national security Trump did not.

The question becomes

Do I vote for a person who showed a lapse of good judgement in their political life?
OR
Do I vote for a person who’s life has been one giant lapse of good judgement?

Consider

Easy choice really.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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06-07-2016, 07:11 AM
RE: Breaking news: FBI Director Comey to deliver statement at 11 a.m. ET
(06-07-2016 06:31 AM)BnW Wrote:  What I don't get is why is there no cry to replace Hillary? She violated rules put in place to protect national security and nothing happened. One thing I do agree with Comey on is that she never intended to betray the US to her enemies and prison is probably not appropriate. But, is this really the person we want as a candidate for President of the United States? How is she a better option? How come no one is calling for her to be replaced? Not a single peep out of the Democrats.
That's what's bothering me about this outcome as well. Not that she won't end up in prison, but that she simply gets to walk away scott-free after doing something that, as James Comey himself admits, would have earned other people administrative sanctions. As far as I'm concerned, mishandling "information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security" (This is the US government's definition of "top secret" information) in an extremely reckless way should automatically disqualify a person from seeking the highest office in the country. I think it would be a slap in the face of justice and a major disservice to the American people if she was allowed to receive an even higher security clearance than she had as Secretary of State after this disastrous revelation from the head of the FBI. Heck, I wouldn't even blame the Republicans if they started impeachment proceedings on her first day in office.

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06-07-2016, 07:43 AM
RE: Breaking news: FBI Director Comey to deliver statement at 11 a.m. ET
(06-07-2016 05:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(05-07-2016 01:51 PM)Vosur Wrote:  We can rule that out as a possible explanation based on testimony from Clinton's closest aide, Huma Abedin. I'm too tired to find the relevant article right now, but I'll post it later.

Edit: Here you go: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pub...story.html

That doesn't actually address the question.
Why was she using a private server? Since she is not an IT person, who did she trust to set it up? Did that person assure her that it was the most secure way to achieve her goal of privacy and security?

Oh knock it off, it's over!

Colin Powell and Rice and several top aids under Bush did far worse between them as far as e-mails not to mention Bush and Cheney lying their way into Iraq.

Google search, take your pick.....

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06-07-2016, 08:26 AM
RE: Breaking news: FBI Director Comey to deliver statement at 11 a.m. ET
First, no, Powell and others did not do worse with their emails. But, even if they did, so what? Is that really a defense. I don't know if you watched Comey's briefing but he did not let Clinton off the hook. He simply declined to recommend criminal prosecution. He also called her a liar and blew a giant gaping hole in her version of what happened. If someone did that on something Trump did, you'd be all over that.

You are so consumed with your "side" you just ignore the merits. "Other people did stuff!" is about the least compelling argument anyone can make.

As for Bush and Cheney, they should be hauled before a Nuremberg type tribunal for the crimes of starting an unprovoked aggressive war and the murder of thousands of innocent people. And, if convicted, they should be treated exactly the same way we treated the last criminals convicted of those crimes, and be hung. And, even if that happens, it still would not exonerate Clinton.

Oh, I'm sure you're wrong about this being over. It is not over.

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06-07-2016, 08:52 AM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2016 08:55 AM by Mr. Boston.)
RE: Breaking news: FBI Director Comey to deliver statement at 11 a.m. ET
(06-07-2016 07:11 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Heck, I wouldn't even blame the Republicans if they started impeachment proceedings on her first day in office.

That was a foredrawn conclusion the minute she announced she was running, before any specific scandal was under investigation. I wouldn't be surprised if they're already mustering votes to repeal whatever the first bill is that's passed under her administration.

I'm a Liberal and I am NOT a fan of Hillary Clinton's. But I can't fail to recognize that they've been trying to hang this woman in the public square for 25 years charge after charge of one groundless scandal after another and nothing has stuck yet. But that wasn't the desired effect, it's never been about actually catching her doing anything criminal or even unethical, it's been about tarnishing her reputation.
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06-07-2016, 09:31 AM
RE: Breaking news: FBI Director Comey to deliver statement at 11 a.m. ET
(06-07-2016 07:11 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 06:31 AM)BnW Wrote:  What I don't get is why is there no cry to replace Hillary? She violated rules put in place to protect national security and nothing happened. One thing I do agree with Comey on is that she never intended to betray the US to her enemies and prison is probably not appropriate. But, is this really the person we want as a candidate for President of the United States? How is she a better option? How come no one is calling for her to be replaced? Not a single peep out of the Democrats.
That's what's bothering me about this outcome as well. Not that she won't end up in prison, but that she simply gets to walk away scott-free after doing something that, as James Comey himself admits, would have earned other people administrative sanctions. As far as I'm concerned, mishandling "information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security" (This is the US government's definition of "top secret" information) in an extremely reckless way should automatically disqualify a person from seeking the highest office in the country. I think it would be a slap in the face of justice and a major disservice to the American people if she was allowed to receive an even higher security clearance than she had as Secretary of State after this disastrous revelation from the head of the FBI. Heck, I wouldn't even blame the Republicans if they started impeachment proceedings on her first day in office.

I mostly agree with your thoughts except for the prison part. A lapse of judgement and mishandling sensitive information =/= aiding and abetting, spying, treason etc. (I know you didn’t say that, I’m using those examples as to what would justify prison time within the context of the topic).

As for disqualifying her for seeking the highest office in the country...yeah, I can see that.

I also think I could make a strong case as for why Trump is unqualified from seeking the highest office in the country and why it would be a major disservice to the American people if he was allowed to occupy the office.

[Image: 570400706feaa7d986b1ace22cdc6ecc5f5b108a...f32b_1.jpg]

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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06-07-2016, 09:45 AM
RE: Breaking news: FBI Director Comey to deliver statement at 11 a.m. ET
(06-07-2016 08:52 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 07:11 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Heck, I wouldn't even blame the Republicans if they started impeachment proceedings on her first day in office.

That was a foredrawn conclusion the minute she announced she was running, before any specific scandal was under investigation. I wouldn't be surprised if they're already mustering votes to repeal whatever the first bill is that's passed under her administration.

I'm a Liberal and I am NOT a fan of Hillary Clinton's. But I can't fail to recognize that they've been trying to hang this woman in the public square for 25 years charge after charge of one groundless scandal after another and nothing has stuck yet. But that wasn't the desired effect, it's never been about actually catching her doing anything criminal or even unethical, it's been about tarnishing her reputation.

This is the point worth highlighting. It doesn't and never did matter what Hilary did, the Republicans have been trying to take her down for years because they are afraid of her. They will try to impeach her, but not because of the emails. They will try to impeach her for daring to be a Democrat.

Should she have used her own private email server? Probably not. Was the use of it criminal? Clearly not. Has she lied (I haven't looked at her specific claims, so I'll just assume for the sake of argument they were lies) about the use of said email server? Almost certainly. Why would she lie? Saver her own ass? Well...yeah, most people who lie do it for that reason. Or they weren't lies but things she really believed. Think about it, this woman has been after the presidency for how long? With how many eyes watching her? And there has been an entire party taking and tweaking any- and everything she is tied to or with to turn it into some scandal. So, why the hell would she intentionally do anything that could be construed as criminal? Consider


Benghazi? Fail
Email scandal? Fail

Fuck, I bet that the republicans would have fallen back on Bill's sexual infidelity if not for the fact that ol' Hastert and Newt have given the Democrats plenty of fodder to call them hypocrites for.

I am even seeing all of these old tired ass conspiracies about the Clintons having people killed. Hobo

If you don't like Hilary, whatever. I don't really like her all that much either. But I am not ready to string her up by her toes every time someone says she fucked up.

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06-07-2016, 10:01 AM
RE: Breaking news: FBI Director Comey to deliver statement at 11 a.m. ET
(06-07-2016 07:11 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Not that she won't end up in prison, but that she simply gets to walk away scott-free after doing something that, as James Comey himself admits, would have earned other people administrative sanctions.

She's no longer a government employee so administrative actions don't apply.

#sigh
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06-07-2016, 10:13 AM
RE: Breaking news: FBI Director Comey to deliver statement at 11 a.m. ET
(06-07-2016 09:31 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 07:11 AM)Vosur Wrote:  That's what's bothering me about this outcome as well. Not that she won't end up in prison, but that she simply gets to walk away scott-free after doing something that, as James Comey himself admits, would have earned other people administrative sanctions. As far as I'm concerned, mishandling "information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security" (This is the US government's definition of "top secret" information) in an extremely reckless way should automatically disqualify a person from seeking the highest office in the country. I think it would be a slap in the face of justice and a major disservice to the American people if she was allowed to receive an even higher security clearance than she had as Secretary of State after this disastrous revelation from the head of the FBI. Heck, I wouldn't even blame the Republicans if they started impeachment proceedings on her first day in office.

I mostly agree with your thoughts except for the prison part. A lapse of judgement and mishandling sensitive information =/= aiding and abetting, spying, treason etc. (I know you didn’t say that, I’m using those examples as to what would justify prison time within the context of the topic).

As for disqualifying her for seeking the highest office in the country...yeah, I can see that.

I also think I could make a strong case as for why Trump is unqualified from seeking the highest office in the country and why it would be a major disservice to the American people if he was allowed to occupy the office.

[Image: 570400706feaa7d986b1ace22cdc6ecc5f5b108a...f32b_1.jpg]
I think there's been a misunderstanding. I was saying that it doesn't bother me that Clinton isn't going to prison for her actions. I do trust James Comey when he says that the evidence isn't strong enough for a criminal prosecution.

(06-07-2016 10:01 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  She's no longer a government employee so administrative actions don't apply.
The US government can't take away the security clearances she gave up when she resigned as SoS, but it can take the necessary steps to make sure that she's never allowed to be in a position where she can endanger the national security of the US again.

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06-07-2016, 10:27 AM
RE: Breaking news: FBI Director Comey to deliver statement at 11 a.m. ET
(06-07-2016 10:13 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(06-07-2016 09:31 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I mostly agree with your thoughts except for the prison part. A lapse of judgement and mishandling sensitive information =/= aiding and abetting, spying, treason etc. (I know you didn’t say that, I’m using those examples as to what would justify prison time within the context of the topic).

As for disqualifying her for seeking the highest office in the country...yeah, I can see that.

I also think I could make a strong case as for why Trump is unqualified from seeking the highest office in the country and why it would be a major disservice to the American people if he was allowed to occupy the office.

[Image: 570400706feaa7d986b1ace22cdc6ecc5f5b108a...f32b_1.jpg]
I think there's been a misunderstanding. I was saying that it doesn't bother me that Clinton isn't going to prison for her actions. I do trust James Comey when he says that the evidence isn't strong enough for a criminal prosecution.

(06-07-2016 10:01 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  She's no longer a government employee so administrative actions don't apply.
The US government can't take away the security clearances she gave up when she resigned as SoS, but it can take the necessary steps to make sure that she's never allowed to be in a position where she can endanger the national security of the US again.
Uh --- yes the US Government ROUTINELY retracts security clearances - when an employee quits, is fired or retires. It's not good for life...

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