Breaking the Moral Contract
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31-08-2012, 03:03 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2012 04:08 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Breaking the Moral Contract
(31-08-2012 11:42 AM)Thomas Wrote:  May I add, Marriage is just a formalization of a religious concept of morality. Secular people should make their own minds what these things mean to them. I think sometimes we carry these moral hangovers with us. Sex is a natural thing to do. Sex with a single partner for life is not. It's not just anything goes, but rather what is the most natural and harmonious way to live. These are things we discover about ourselves.

Since when did the fact that it is a cultural product matter? As I said, a person has the choice to be married or not. If two people are both willing to fulfill the promises they agree upon when they are married (whatever they may be), who are disagree with that?

I personally would like to get married.
My older brother does not believe in marriage.
Does he care if I want to get married? No. Do I care if he doesn't want to get married (and still maintain relationships with his love interests)? No. We all have our preferences, now get over it.

(31-08-2012 12:15 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(30-08-2012 01:02 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  What the fuck are you talking about? I wasn't saying it was okay to interfere.

Oops, sorry, I should not have replied to you but started a new reply, I didn't mean to reply to you in person. Sorry.

'Tis alright m'lady, no 'arm done. Smile

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31-08-2012, 03:47 PM (This post was last modified: 31-08-2012 03:53 PM by TrulyX.)
RE: Breaking the Moral Contract
As far as lex talionis, to an extent, I'm all for it. That's just justice. I wouldn't view it as an eye for an eye and binding, as in if anyone does anything immoral, their rights are suspended and you're obligated to return the favor, but in being immoral, a person is definitely opening the door for justice. The big question is about the system for justice; i.e. how you handle setting things straight? I don't think it should be much of a question, at all, about whether or not you're opening that door when you refuse to behave morally. I think everyone should agree that if someone cheats, lies, steals, murders, etc., that they are no longer owed anything morally, or at least the door opens for justice.

As far as cheating goes, I think that's clear also. If you imply, either explicitly or otherwise, a certain extent of exclusivity in your relationship, and given our cultural norms, like them or not, that comes already implied with a relationship or marriage, if you break that, you are cheating, being deceitful and thus immoral.

I agree with a lot of what Thomas said too. Being exclusive, in regards to marriage and relationships in general, is something that was just made up and thrown around by religion as being the moral way of doing things. That isn't, however, the moral way to do things. If you are in a relationship or marriage it's up to you to decide on the boundaries and stay open and honest about things. There are people who have marriages and are committed to each other and their relationship, but they choose to keep things open sexually. It's up to you and what kind of relationship you want to have. The key is in being honest about what type of relationship you are in and want to be in.

As far as getting in people's business, that's really up to you. You don't owe someone any added level, or layer, of morality just because they are your friend, family, or something similar. That's another primitive and religious concept: that somehow loyalty, to a religion, tribe, country, family, friend, gang, etc., somehow overtakes what is morally right and wrong. You don't have to be in people's business, but if you do find out that your friend is doing something that you consider wrong, doesn't have to be cheating, it's up to you what you do with that information. Especially when questioned about it, you have to decide to be honest, stay quiet or whatever.

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31-08-2012, 03:58 PM
RE: Breaking the Moral Contract
Well, I can tell you that if I had a partner who was cheating, and someone told me about it, I would be royally pissed at them for meddling in my affairs.

You can't impose your morality on my relationship. It's between me and the cheater, and you have no place in the whole thing. Maybe I alrerady know and choose to ignore it. Maybe I don't know but it would have blown over. But now that I have been told, things are shattered.

I hate people meddling in my affairs - it's like someone else deciding what's right for me and what I should feel and do. Not cool at all.

Now if my partner was Hitler and you wanted to bring him to justice, that is a whole other ball game. But our relationship has nothing to do with you or anyone at all but me and my partner. I would be very angry at you for imposing your own morals on it and intruding.

Thank god I don't have to deal with shit like that in real life.

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31-08-2012, 04:04 PM
RE: Breaking the Moral Contract
(31-08-2012 03:58 PM)Dom Wrote:  Well, I can tell you that if I had a partner who was cheating, and someone told me about it, I would be royally pissed at them for meddling in my affairs.

I don't know if I understand that completely.

Would you be pissed by them knowing about it? Or by them being honest and telling you about it?

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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01-09-2012, 08:53 PM
RE: Breaking the Moral Contract
(31-08-2012 03:03 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Since when did the fact that it is a cultural product matter?

You may not notice how much you are influenced by the culture you are born into, and yes, it matters greatly. The fact that you hold a concept of the meaning of the word "marriage" is evidence of that cultural impact on your thinking.

(31-08-2012 03:03 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  We all have our preferences, now get over it.

Do you mean get over a sexual hang up? I though that was clear. I think sex is a recreational activity. If I tell someone to go fuck themselves it's like telling them to go have ice cream. We should all fuck ourselves as much as we like. Ice cream makes you fat, so masturbation is way better for the cardiovascular system.

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02-09-2012, 04:40 PM
RE: Breaking the Moral Contract
(01-09-2012 08:53 PM)Thomas Wrote:  You may not notice how much you are influenced by the culture you are born into, and yes, it matters greatly. The fact that you hold a concept of the meaning of the word "marriage" is evidence of that cultural impact on your thinking.

If I had adopted my culture's view on marriage, I'd be treating a woman as property.

(01-09-2012 08:53 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Do you mean get over a sexual hang up? I though that was clear. I think sex is a recreational activity. If I tell someone to go fuck themselves it's like telling them to go have ice cream. We should all fuck ourselves as much as we like. Ice cream makes you fat, so masturbation is way better for the cardiovascular system.

Sex is more than a recreational activity. It is what drives an organism to thrive and evolve. Every appendage that belongs to an organism exists because something threatened that very sexual reproduction. Marriage quite obviously doesn't hinder it. I don't know if you have noticed or not, but we are overpopulating the world. Marriage clearly does not negatively effect sex, even if it is part of almost every culture in the world.

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02-09-2012, 04:42 PM
RE: Breaking the Moral Contract
(02-09-2012 04:40 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Marriage quite obviously doesn't hinder it. I don't know if you have noticed or not, but we are overpopulating the world. Marriage clearly does not negatively effect sex, even if it is part of almost every culture in the world.

I've been married. Trust me, marriage negatively affects sex.Drinking Beverage

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02-09-2012, 04:45 PM
RE: Breaking the Moral Contract
(31-08-2012 04:04 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(31-08-2012 03:58 PM)Dom Wrote:  Well, I can tell you that if I had a partner who was cheating, and someone told me about it, I would be royally pissed at them for meddling in my affairs.

I don't know if I understand that completely.

Would you be pissed by them knowing about it? Or by them being honest and telling you about it?

I would be pissed about them telling me about it. I didn't ask. If I want to know, I'll ask. You don't even know if I would want to know. Or if I know already but decided to ignore it. You would just be making trouble where there was none before. I would not appreciate it.

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02-09-2012, 04:58 PM
RE: Breaking the Moral Contract
(02-09-2012 04:42 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-09-2012 04:40 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Marriage quite obviously doesn't hinder it. I don't know if you have noticed or not, but we are overpopulating the world. Marriage clearly does not negatively effect sex, even if it is part of almost every culture in the world.

I've been married. Trust me, marriage negatively affects sex.Drinking Beverage

At an evolutionary standpoint, it doesn't. Whether or not you are happy married is of no concern to me. Drinking Beverage

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02-09-2012, 05:16 PM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2012 05:19 PM by TrulyX.)
RE: Breaking the Moral Contract
(30-08-2012 12:38 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  If you are in a committed relationship, you are promising you won't be fooling around. If you can't keep your promise, don't get into a relationship.

Until you're in a committed relationship where you promise each other that you are going to fool around.

Logica Humano Wrote:If I had adopted my culture's view on marriage, I'd be treating a woman as property.

There is a reason why people long to be in a relationship, but find it hard to be in an open sexual relationship, but also find it hard to stay exclusive in an exclusive sexual relationship.

Now to the point, what it seems like you are doing is adding 'being sexually exclusive' into the definition of marriage.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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