Briefly: WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONCERNED ABOUT RELIGION?
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26-05-2014, 12:15 PM
RE: Briefly: WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONCERNED ABOUT RELIGION?
I am concerned becuase of the following reasons:

1.) Religion is often the tool used to oppress and repress others.
2.) It causes harm
3.) It is often used as a means of voiding personal agency.
4.) If bat-shit insane.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
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26-05-2014, 02:05 PM
RE: Briefly: WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONCERNED ABOUT RELIGION?
(25-05-2014 05:36 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  FIVE main reasons

1. Every religions secret agenda is to force their religion onto other people in order to make more members for their sect.

So... what about religions that are not missionary in nature and not pushing to convert others?

Quote:2. The Religious are the most violent people, the most ignorant, the most hateful, wrathful, illogical, Anti life group of people on the planet.

So... What about misdeeds justified by belief systems and ideologies that aren't religions/religious?

Quote:3. They meddle in the affairs of politics and science by asserting their religion into it. Unforgivable.

4. They are ignorant, violent and hypocrites and demand special privileges when they have been getting those for thousands of years already AND ruling the entire world and controlling all of its money. Yet they STILL need to be special and free of the burden of freedom of speech or their feelings will get hurt.

5. They pay no taxes. There is zero reason they should be getting off tax free.

Who are "They"?
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26-05-2014, 02:30 PM
Briefly: WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONCERNED ABOUT RELIGION?
(26-05-2014 02:05 PM)Gaest Wrote:  
(25-05-2014 05:36 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  FIVE main reasons

1. Every religions secret agenda is to force their religion onto other people in order to make more members for their sect.

So... what about religions that are not missionary in nature and not pushing to convert others?

2. The Religious are the most violent people, the most ignorant, the most hateful, wrathful, illogical, Anti life group of people on the planet.

Quote:So... What about misdeeds justified by belief systems and ideologies that aren't religions/religious?

Quote:3. They meddle in the affairs of politics and science by asserting their religion into it. Unforgivable.

4. They are ignorant, violent and hypocrites and demand special privileges when they have been getting those for thousands of years already AND ruling the entire world and controlling all of its money. Yet they STILL need to be special and free of the burden of freedom of speech or their feelings will get hurt.

5. They pay no taxes. There is zero reason they should be getting off tax free.

Who are "They"?
[/quote]

1. Not many people on an atheist forum are openly anti-Buddhist, except for the "woo."

2. What about them? How often do those become a problem in the modern era? AF recently shut down a white supremacist poster. Those types of views are often supported by religion (see the 'Merican south)

5. What do you mean, who are "they?" Are you not aware religion is tax exempt, clergy enjoy tax shelters, and tax free revenue?

The Catholic Church is a $170 billion tax-free industry in the US alone.

And the majority of that spending goes to schools, churches, and even hospitals designed to bring in more converts and create more revenue.

Quote:The church does not release financial data, but a lengthy report by The Economist last year said annual spending by the Vatican and church-owned entities in the U.S. alone was about $170 billion in 2010. While there are no hard data about the U.S. Catholic Church's annual revenue, Slate puts those spending numbers into some perspective -- noting that in fiscal 2012 Apple (AAPL +1.13%) had $157 billion in revenue and that only 16 companies have more than $170 billion in revenue.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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26-05-2014, 03:05 PM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2014 03:11 PM by Gaest.)
RE: Briefly: WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONCERNED ABOUT RELIGION?
(26-05-2014 02:30 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  1. Not many people on an atheist forum are openly anti-Buddhist, except for the "woo."

2. What about them? How often do those become a problem in the modern era? AF recently shut down a white supremacist poster. Those types of views are often supported by religion (see the 'Merican south)

5. What do you mean, who are "they?" Are you not aware religion is tax exempt, clergy enjoy tax shelters, and tax free revenue?

The Catholic Church is a $170 billion tax-free industry in the US alone.

And the majority of that spending goes to schools, churches, and even hospitals designed to bring in more converts and create more revenue.

Quote:The church does not release financial data, but a lengthy report by The Economist last year said annual spending by the Vatican and church-owned entities in the U.S. alone was about $170 billion in 2010. While there are no hard data about the U.S. Catholic Church's annual revenue, Slate puts those spending numbers into some perspective -- noting that in fiscal 2012 Apple (AAPL +1.13%) had $157 billion in revenue and that only 16 companies have more than $170 billion in revenue.

1. Buddhism actually have missionary tendencies... There are religions that do not though.

2. Have you noticed what is happening in Europe in terms of Nationalism and semi Fascism right now? Racist views are supported by idiots, and said idiots work with what they have. Everything from crackpot science to the religion or ideology they have handy.
There are religions and religious expressions that are not inherently racist.

5. There are religions and legislation pertaining to them outside of Murica. Some of them are probably not tax exempt, but to be fair I don't know.
My question about "They" still applies to 3. and 4. though.
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26-05-2014, 03:34 PM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2014 03:38 PM by rampant.a.i..)
Briefly: WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONCERNED ABOUT RELIGION?
I don't see how crackpot religious or secular ideology would be supported by atheism. As the thread is titled "why are atheists concerned about religion," I don't see the point of "Well, what about secular fascism in Europe that is also often religious!"

This is sounding remarkably similar to TrainWreck's "Atheism is a political doctrine" assertions on AF.

I don't care if there are religions and religious doctrines that are inherently not racist. I care that the largest traditions in the world generally support bigotry, often racism, interfere in politics with their religious agenda, and I don't see how comparably small numbers people holding religious services somewhere in the world who don't actively recruit and brainwash children, or meddle in political affairs, to increase their tithing income, invalidate the concerns raised by the major religions that do.

Ok, so you didn't like the answer "religions, income by tithing, and clergy are tax exempt" are "they."

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26-05-2014, 03:36 PM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2014 03:52 PM by Charis.)
RE: Briefly: WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONCERNED ABOUT RELIGION?
Just in case anyone starts going onto other "points" while pretending the "points" they were refuted on never happened.

[Image: Debate-Flow-Chart1.jpg]

A respectful person can only be dead wrong so many times in a single discussion before they tastefully stop acting as if they've been on logically superior ground the whole time.

Not saying anyone in this thread WOULD do this. Of course not...


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A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
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26-05-2014, 04:16 PM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2014 04:23 PM by Gaest.)
RE: Briefly: WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONCERNED ABOUT RELIGION?
(26-05-2014 03:34 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  I don't see how crackpot religious or secular ideology would be supported by atheism. As the thread is titled "why are atheists concerned about religion," I don't see the point of "Well, what about secular fascism in Europe that is also often religious!"

I didn't say that. I have not been talking about atheism - don't think I even used the word.

My problem is mainly with broad sweeping statements about religions and religious people when what is postulated does not necessarily apply.

Quote:This is sounding remarkably similar to TrainWreck's "Atheism is a political doctrine" assertions on AF.

I don't consider Atheism a political doctrine,[/quote] and saying so is as problematic as taking something which is particular to only a segment of religions or religious people and extrapolating it to be a trait of religion in general - and thereby all religions.

Quote:I don't care if there are religions and religious doctrines that are inherently not racist. I care that the largest traditions in the world generally support bigotry, often racism, interfere in politics with their religious agenda, and I don't see how comparably small numbers people holding religious services somewhere in the world who don't actively recruit and brainwash children, or meddle in political affairs, to increase their tithing income, invalidate the concerns raised by the major religions that do.

I am not saying that they are, but belonging to a religion that is not guilty of a lot of those things - and knowing of others that aren't either - I will still point out that sweeping generalisations are problematic.
That being said, reading through my posts before I admit I probably should have written out my underlying intentions instead of just pointing to problems in individual statements. Sorry about that.

Quote:Ok, so you didn't like the answer "religions, income by tithing, and clergy are tax exempt" are "they."

Well, the reason I asked was mostly to clear up whether SF was talking about specific religions and groups in specific places or if it was another generalisation.
Just trying to provide some nuance - and to find out whether it was something I needed to get in on.

Edit: Also, how did you get this "Well, what about secular fascism in Europe that is also often religious!" from what I said earlier?
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26-05-2014, 04:48 PM
RE: Briefly: WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONCERNED ABOUT RELIGION?
(25-05-2014 06:29 AM)Forthright Atheist Wrote:  WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONCERNED ABOUT RELIGION?

Because a lot of religious people feel that other people, atheists included, have to live life according to their rules. Also, some of us used to be religious, and like discussing things we used to believe that we now don't.
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26-05-2014, 05:53 PM
RE: Briefly: WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONCERNED ABOUT RELIGION?
Show me a "holy" book that doesn't categorize at least 1 trivial act that causes no one any harm as "sinful", and doesn't demonize those who would commit said harmless act,...
and I'll show you a GIGANTIC population of religious people who don't need their beliefs revealed as the ridiculous delusions that they actually are! Undecided

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26-05-2014, 08:53 PM
RE: Briefly: WHY ARE ATHEISTS CONCERNED ABOUT RELIGION?
(26-05-2014 04:16 PM)Gaest Wrote:  I didn't say that. I have not been talking about atheism - don't think I even used the word.

That is primarily what the thread is about.

(26-05-2014 04:16 PM)Gaest Wrote:  My problem is mainly with broad sweeping statements about religions and religious people when what is postulated does not necessarily apply.

The problem with religion as a whole is broad and sweeping. You are correct that there are religions that don't fit this bill, we aren't talking about them nor the people that don't contribute to the problems that we are talking about. If you'd like to analyze harmless religious practices, this isn't the place for it and you are free to start your own thread.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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