Bring It On!
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 4 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
14-08-2017, 02:47 AM
RE: Bring It On!
(13-08-2017 06:59 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  
(13-08-2017 06:20 PM)Vera Wrote:  The mere idea that someone could be like this for real is proof enough that there is no god. Drinking Beverage

God is so obviously real and I'm not even kidding, how could you possibly think there is no God? Just ridiculous.

> And your evidence for God's existence is.....??? Consider
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-08-2017, 02:55 AM
RE: Bring It On!
(14-08-2017 02:47 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  
(13-08-2017 06:59 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  God is so obviously real and I'm not even kidding, how could you possibly think there is no God? Just ridiculous.

> And your evidence for God's existence is.....??? Consider

You don't think everything in the universe just happened for no reason, do you? The incredible variety of animal and plant life, the complex workings of the human mind and our dreams, the perfect geometry of the stars and planets......there's no way it could all be some meaningless coincidence. Science explains HOW things are made, but fails to address WHY things are made.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-08-2017, 03:00 AM
RE: Bring It On!
(14-08-2017 02:36 AM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  ... Why would I need to perform an appendectomy on a friend? That's where you lost me ...

It was just an example off the top of my head of a situation almost no one would be familiar with that would have to be dealt with if it happened. But in conjunction with the car example above it does make a mixed metaphor, so forget appendectomy and substitute being a passenger in the back seat of a supersonic jet fighter whose pilot just died of a heart attack and it's up to you to figure a way out of that predicament alive. Unless you're already a pilot you'd probably pray for divine assistance, because your ignorance about how to fly the jet could kill you. A pilot, on the other hand, would have no need to call for divine help. Gods only get invoked in situations beyond our ability to cope, in all other situations we don't bother to involve a god because a god is superfluous.

If a god is superfluous in all situations where we have sufficient knowledge to cope, then the best means of increasing our ability to cope is to increase our knowledge, not keen haplessly unto the heavens for a saving hand that virtually never appears and NEVER appears with any reliability. Knowledge makes gods unnecessary.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Airportkid's post
14-08-2017, 03:07 AM
RE: Bring It On!
(14-08-2017 02:55 AM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  
(14-08-2017 02:47 AM)Gwaithmir Wrote:  > And your evidence for God's existence is.....??? Consider

You don't think everything in the universe just happened for no reason, do you? The incredible variety of animal and plant life, the complex workings of the human mind and our dreams, the perfect geometry of the stars and planets......there's no way it could all be some meaningless coincidence.

> You're engaging in a logical fallacy known as the Argument from Ignorance. You don't know how the universe works, therefore God did it.

> You are also engaging in another logical fallacy known as Shifting the Burden of Proof. You are suggesting that the universe is the work of an immensely powerful being, yet you have no evidence to support that notion, so you challenge your opponent to disprove something you haven't proved in the first place.

> You are the one making the positive assertions, therefore, you must shoulder the burden of proof. Prove that your God exists. Prove that the universe was created by said God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Gwaithmir's post
14-08-2017, 03:12 AM
RE: Bring It On!
(14-08-2017 02:55 AM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  ... The incredible variety of animal and plant life, the complex workings of the human mind and our dreams, the perfect geometry of the stars and planets......there's no way it could all be some meaningless coincidence ...

Here is where your ignorance is showing, and ignorance is not a deprecating term; we're ALL ignorant in different arenas of knowledge. YOU yourself don't have adequate knowledge to account for what you perceive as affronts to "common sense", and therefore conclude that since YOU don't understand it, it can't be.

The thing to do when confronted by conflicting outlooks is NOT just declare your vision correct and all conflicting visions error, but increase your knowledge of the subject at hand as much as practicable, to found your opinion more on fact than supposition.

You may emerge with your original opinion intact, but have a deeper understanding of the true WHY, not the trite, hollow, meaningless "why" that some god diddit.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Airportkid's post
14-08-2017, 03:25 AM
RE: Bring It On!
(14-08-2017 02:55 AM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  the perfect geometry of the stars and planets......there's no way it could all be some meaningless coincidence.

Firstoff, this is an argument from incredulity. The fact that you cannot fathom that something is the way it is or that you dont like something to be a certain way has absolutely no bearing on reality. Things are how they are, they dont care if you like them or cant imagine them to be like they are.

But, what "perfect geometry" are you talking about? There is absolutely nothing perfect in the geometry of the stars. Whats your standard anyway for relating "perfect" to?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Deesse23's post
14-08-2017, 03:56 AM (This post was last modified: 14-08-2017 04:00 AM by Airportkid.)
RE: Bring It On!
(14-08-2017 02:55 AM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  ... there's no way it could all be some meaningless coincidence ...

I've made this point before in other threads but here goes again: shuffle a pack of cards. When you've finished shuffling, the sequence of cards you hold in your hands had a 52! chance of occurring (8.0658175e^67), a number greater than the number of atoms that make up earth (10^50). Whatever sequence it is, it's a miracle, there in your hands. Want another? Shuffle again. Each shuffle creates a fresh miracle of probabilistic outcome.

We see the universe and marvel at the coincidences of its configuration, but forget that ANY possible configuration would be, just as a shuffled deck of cards, astronomically improbable. Whatever configuration we find is the one that emerged, improbable as its particular coincidences happen to be.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Airportkid's post
14-08-2017, 04:00 AM
RE: Bring It On!
(14-08-2017 02:55 AM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  You don't think everything in the universe just happened for no reason, do you? The incredible variety of animal and plant life, the complex workings of the human mind and our dreams, the perfect geometry of the stars and planets......there's no way it could all be some meaningless coincidence.

Science explains HOW things are made, but fails to address WHY things are made.

Because there is no "why". That's the one thing that gets to me a little bit, that theists think there has to be a "why" at all. The idea that a creator made all the animals/life is one that is fairly straight forward to initially think, but then when you start looking into what we know about the human body/general workings of known animal and plant life, it gets more and more complex. That's not to say it couldn't be done by a hypothetical creator, but it just makes your argument harder to understand.

In your mind its -

Creator: *poof* - right thats all the animals done, and it only took me one day

where as would it would really be is:

Creator: "ok so, I've managed to create DNA chains, now how the fuck do I get this to into this human shell I've made. I'll need some sort of fluid to be in the body and get pumped around....so I'll need an organ to do that....Man this is hard work. And what in my name did I make this spleen for again? Gabriel!....GABRIEL! Come here and hold this spleen for me will you.

Like he's standing over a parked car in a garage or something. Life, in all its forms, is so overly complex, right down the last DNA strand, that to suggest it's all done by some wise creator....is bordering on insanity, in all honesty, as it's just TOO much. If animals all had like a real basic set up, (Limbs, organs, eyes etc) and there was no such thing as DNA/antibodies/blood cells and all this stuff that just keeps getting more and more intense as you dial down, then yeah I could probably understand the idea behind it, but as life is SO complex, (as is the universe) it just makes more sense that some of this would have come about on its own via evolution.

And thats a whole different kettle of fish "God creating the universe", as when that idea was pitched, people thought the universe consisted of The Earth, The moon and the Sun, and those two things revolved around us, and the night sky was a cover. Then as time goes on you find not only is that BS, and not only are there more planets, but there is an ever expanding/potentially infinite universe full of planets, with others potentially and likely to contain life somewhere as well. Did god create that as well? If not, then who did? and if so, surely we're not special either, because apparently god does this shit all the time? And why would he keep multiple life forms that he/she/it creates apart, when we're all supposedly its children?

Again, like it's just mega bollocks mate. You're thinking of ideas that get rabbited on about, but if you like REALLY think about it, and I mean to really drill down on the mere LOGIC of everything we know as a species, the idea of a god/gods just becomes invalid with the amount of questions it raises, and the potential answers you find in the process.

When life gives you lemons, just remember you are an....
(18-09-2017 09:47 AM)vahaaao Wrote:  Irresponsible bachelor daddy
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like OakTree500's post
14-08-2017, 04:41 AM
RE: Bring It On!
(13-08-2017 06:59 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  God is so obviously real and I'm not even kidding, how could you possibly think there is no God? Just ridiculous.

God is not obvious to atheists at all, since most of us have read, heard, or thought of more reasonable explanations for everything the concept of God is somehow supposed to explain but really doesn't. You haven't done your homework, so you project on us by saying we are "just ridiculous."

Haven't you read any of our critiques of the God concept or our discussions of alternative explanations? They are all over this forum.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Thoreauvian's post
14-08-2017, 04:55 AM
RE: Bring It On!
(14-08-2017 04:41 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(13-08-2017 06:59 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  God is so obviously real and I'm not even kidding, how could you possibly think there is no God? Just ridiculous.

God is not obvious to atheists at all, since most of us have read, heard, or thought of more reasonable explanations for everything the concept of God is somehow supposed to explain but really doesn't. You haven't done your homework, so you project on us by saying we are "just ridiculous."

Haven't you read any of our critiques of the God concept or our discussions of alternative explanations? They are all over this forum.
A few asserted axioms exist even in the world of atheism, but they actually can be counted on. They form, for example, the basis of mathematics, which actually is an accurate and reliable tool for understanding and improving experienced reality.

There's nothing wrong in principle with an axiomatic truth, but it better explain experienced reality and predict outcomes accurately. God does neither. That's an abstraction that leaks like a sieve. A bad trade-off just because it seems more intuitive in some narrow ways, assuming you're willfully ignorant enough.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like mordant's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: