Britain's One Party State (sort of)
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30-06-2016, 01:52 AM
Britain's One Party State (sort of)
The British Labour Party, vanquished in Scotland in May 2016, has had only weak leadership since Ed Miliband beat his brother David for leadership in 2010.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010...leadership
Since Mr Corbyn has arrived, there has been no effective opposition at all. The third party LibDems cannot seem to attract members and UKIP are too extreme for all but a small percentage of voters. Some racists have attached themselves to that Party too. David, Ed and Jeremy Corbyn are fine men, but only David even stood a chance of being trusted by most Brits with the economy and 'its the economy stupid' that ultimately counts.

The media comment is that Labour are divided (whcih they are) and there is a struggle between the Parliamentary Labour Party supported by the moderate left versus the Corbynites and newly joined supporters of Labour who are the far left. They may disintigrate altogether if they don't find a leader and some policies soon.

A comment that needs to be made is that this leaves the UK functioning for years with no effective loyal opposition. That is the least of the UK's problems given the Brexit situation.

Nothing to do with atheism, but I just thought someone ought to mention it. Brexit could lead to Scotland leaving the UK (quite likely) to the UK losing its Permanent Seat at the UN (not likely, but conceivable) and other events to which people might like to give some thought.

The good news is that there is no political or legal instability. All done in the best possible taste...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxf8Sf_Hyk4
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02-07-2016, 07:34 AM (This post was last modified: 02-07-2016 07:37 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Britain's One Party State (sort of)
This is a familiar scenario. In Canada, Quebec tried to separate, same in Scotland, now England wants to go it alone. They all start with the crazy idea that a vote will change everything, BECAUSE, it is a democratic thing, don'tyaknow. What all of the "leave" people fail to do is to put forward a plan prior to the vote, so when the vote is being taken people realize they don't have a clue what is going to happen afterwards. Then they realize that there are all sorts of issues which need to be addressed. Surprise, Surprise!

In Canada, it ended in an attempt to have something called "sovereignty-association" instead of federalism. The Scots started talking about a kinda "common market" with a Queen, oh, and the Pound, and free borders, etc. Now, in the UK the "leave" campaigners are saying that it is high time for the EU to negotiate, in an adult manner, for a free trade zone and freedom of movement of people, but with the UK not having to follow EU laws...like Norway...ooops, oh, we forgot, Norway is part of the EU free trade zone, accepts freedom of movement of people, but gets NO vote over the laws of the EU it is obliged to accept.

Oh, and we forgot to think about the fact that millions of people have changed their lives, their families' lives, moved to other countries, become EU citizens, have rights as Europeans that will have to be taken away and that, oh yes, the EU Council and Parliament would have to approve the Brexit, which they are unlikely to do since the Brexiters will put forward a plan to keep the UK in a free trade zone with no tariffs.

But, as Jean-Claude Juncker said the other day, there already is a treaty guaranteeing free trade and free movement of people. If the UK wants to be in it, then they have to accept the rules that go with it. "Mon Dieu", say the Brexiters, "you mean we already have such a trade zone? Formidable!"

This all ends with parties trying to come up with some kind of compromise. Then they all look like idiots, because they are. The Canadian situation ended with the party that put forward the idea of a compromise, the Progressive Conservative Party under Brian Mulroney, being reduced to two seats in parliament and having it's party status removed. Then the party was dissolved and a new Conservative Party was formed.

I see the same thing happening in the UK. The Conservative government has thrown itself onto its own sword. It will have to admit it has no plan to take the UK out of the EU, since it didn't want this to happen. Nor does Labour or the Lib-Dems.

Any party which tries to push this agenda will push the button on the wholesale exit of financial service businesses from London and a new Scottish Independence referendum, which, this time, will likely succeed.

What a mess. The likely outcome is that after much embarrassment, the Brexiters will have to admit they have no idea how to take this forward, that they misled the public about the consequences and the fact that legally this requires the EU to agree to it and by doing so, agree to the removal of rights given to millions of British nationals living in Europe and millions of Europeans living in the UK.
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03-07-2016, 01:15 AM
RE: Britain's One Party State (sort of)
Quote:UKIP are too extreme for all but a small percentage of voters. Some racists have attached themselves to that Party too.

And some radical commies have attached themselves to Labour. What's your point?
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04-07-2016, 04:01 AM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2016 04:05 AM by Zeff.)
RE: Britain's One Party State (sort of)
Excellent post and I agree with what you say, Deltabravo, but: "I see the same thing happening in the UK. .... Nor does Labour or the Lib-Dems."
I was trying to make the point clear that there is no effective opposition in the UK and hasn't been since Ed bead David in 2010. Now the far left has got into Labour again after all the battles in the 1970s to get the then "Militant Tendency" hard socialists out. This probably makes the party unelectable indefinitely.

And if I may clarify that "now England [& Wales] wants to go it alone" from the EU, not from Scotland. Scottish politics has diverged from English, Welsh & NI due to the growth of Scottish nationalism.
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04-07-2016, 04:07 AM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2016 04:33 AM by Zeff.)
RE: Britain's One Party State (sort of)
(03-07-2016 01:15 AM)Lucipurr Wrote:  
Quote:UKIP are too extreme for all but a small percentage of voters. Some racists have attached themselves to that Party too.

And some radical commies have attached themselves to Labour. What's your point?
Those were two points. My post was more observation than conclusion.
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04-07-2016, 06:13 AM
RE: Britain's One Party State (sort of)
Hi,

I'm going to a meeting of our local Labour Party on Wednesday evening. However, I don't expect to learn any more than is on this intelligent and well informed thread.

Hope I'm wrong.

D.
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