British Soldier Beheaded in Street
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24-05-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: British Soldier Beheaded in Street
(24-05-2013 12:05 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(24-05-2013 12:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  And that was soooooo helpful. Dodgy

When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.Consider

And Untrained response is worse than no response. Speaking of guns helping explain the Gabby Giffords event in AZ. 1 crazy guy with a political agenda (sounds familiar) yet he killed how many? Because he had a gun. You point is invalid and honestly not worthy of someone of your intelligence.

Crazy person with gun =/= Sane person with gun.

This is why there are background checks and licensing.

To get a permit to carry, I had to take a firearms safety course and I was investigated by the local police, the state police, and the FBI.

To purchase a firearm, I have to have another background check. Each time.

Either we try to rid society of firearms or we implement safety measures. Neither of these courses will be perfect.

Please define what you mean by "untrained response".
Response by police does not always work out well, and response by civilians often does.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-05-2013, 02:39 PM
RE: British Soldier Beheaded in Street
(24-05-2013 02:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(24-05-2013 12:05 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  And Untrained response is worse than no response. Speaking of guns helping explain the Gabby Giffords event in AZ. 1 crazy guy with a political agenda (sounds familiar) yet he killed how many? Because he had a gun. You point is invalid and honestly not worthy of someone of your intelligence.

Crazy person with gun =/= Sane person with gun.

This is why there are background checks and licensing.

To get a permit to carry, I had to take a firearms safety course and I was investigated by the local police, the state police, and the FBI.

To purchase a firearm, I have to have another background check. Each time.

Either we try to rid society of firearms or we implement safety measures. Neither of these courses will be perfect.

Please define what you mean by "untrained response".
Response by police does not always work out well, and response by civilians often does.

By untrained response I am referring to the NRA fantasy of the Dirty Harry style lone vigilante to "solve crime". It never works that way what you get in real life is a George Zimmerman or worse. We can discuss whether or not having firearms for personal defense is a good idea in another thread but thats not what you are suggesting. What your comment suggests is some kind of hollywood style shootout where magically the bad guy can't hit anything and the good guy never misses and hurts anyone.

Trained responders (Cops for instance) tend to overreact in these situations (see the hail of gunfire before they captured the Boston Marathon suspect) so what would someone with little to no training do? Either freeze up or unload in a panic. Neither would help the situation and the latter would probably result in more deaths.

What happened in London was a tragedy and goes to show that the situation with the muslim community there needs to be dealt with in a better way. But claiming that having a shootout in the streets would have made that situation better is insane.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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24-05-2013, 03:01 PM
RE: British Soldier Beheaded in Street
(24-05-2013 02:39 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(24-05-2013 02:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  Crazy person with gun =/= Sane person with gun.

This is why there are background checks and licensing.

To get a permit to carry, I had to take a firearms safety course and I was investigated by the local police, the state police, and the FBI.

To purchase a firearm, I have to have another background check. Each time.

Either we try to rid society of firearms or we implement safety measures. Neither of these courses will be perfect.

Please define what you mean by "untrained response".
Response by police does not always work out well, and response by civilians often does.

By untrained response I am referring to the NRA fantasy of the Dirty Harry style lone vigilante to "solve crime". It never works that way what you get in real life is a George Zimmerman or worse. We can discuss whether or not having firearms for personal defense is a good idea in another thread but thats not what you are suggesting. What your comment suggests is some kind of hollywood style shootout where magically the bad guy can't hit anything and the good guy never misses and hurts anyone.

Trained responders (Cops for instance) tend to overreact in these situations (see the hail of gunfire before they captured the Boston Marathon suspect) so what would someone with little to no training do? Either freeze up or unload in a panic. Neither would help the situation and the latter would probably result in more deaths.

What happened in London was a tragedy and goes to show that the situation with the muslim community there needs to be dealt with in a better way. But claiming that having a shootout in the streets would have made that situation better is insane.

I think your assessment of "a shootout in the streets" is unrealistic.
If an armed response saved the life of that soldier at the cost of the lives of the two scumbags, would that not be worthwhile?

Your assessment of the gunfight in Watertown is merely ignorant and insulting.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-05-2013, 03:18 PM
RE: British Soldier Beheaded in Street
(24-05-2013 12:05 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(24-05-2013 12:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  And that was soooooo helpful. Dodgy

When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.Consider

And Untrained response is worse than no response. Speaking of guns helping explain the Gabby Giffords event in AZ. 1 crazy guy with a political agenda (sounds familiar) yet he killed how many? Because he had a gun. You point is invalid and honestly not worthy of someone of your intelligence.

I'm getting fed up with this sort of attitude. This IS a typical liberal overprotective mother bullshit - the idea that you're too stupid to arm or protect yourself so we'll do it for you. That idea is the biggest pile of crap I've ever heard. A person with a moderate amount of training with a firearm could have hendeled themselves and shot and killed these guys before harm came to them. If you think otherwise, you are an asshat with no clue as to what you're talking about.

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24-05-2013, 03:27 PM
RE: British Soldier Beheaded in Street
Back to the original post - what happened there was horrible and I'm glad the Bobbies killed those two brutal fucks.

But people, lets not overreact here. This is no huge terrorist conspiracy. The uncle of the Boston Marathon bombers said it best: these guys are losers!




"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

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24-05-2013, 03:36 PM
RE: British Soldier Beheaded in Street
(24-05-2013 03:27 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  I'm glad the Bobbies killed those two brutal fucks.

They didn't kill them. They are recovering in hospital under armed guard.

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24-05-2013, 03:36 PM
RE: British Soldier Beheaded in Street
What the hell does all the gun talk have to do with OP? You want to debate guns (or discuss what *could* have happened but didnt) find another thread because there are many of those to chose from.

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24-05-2013, 03:42 PM
RE: British Soldier Beheaded in Street
(24-05-2013 03:36 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(24-05-2013 03:27 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  I'm glad the Bobbies killed those two brutal fucks.

They didn't kill them. They are recovering in hospital under armed guard.

Pity. Now the Brits have to try and imprison them, wasting hard earned money on their worthless asses.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

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24-05-2013, 03:43 PM
RE: British Soldier Beheaded in Street
(24-05-2013 03:36 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  What the hell does all the gun talk have to do with OP? You want to debate guns (or discuss what *could* have happened but didnt) find another thread because there are many of those to chose from.

Drinking Beverage

It's a bit of a diversion, I'll admit, Mom

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

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24-05-2013, 03:47 PM
RE: British Soldier Beheaded in Street
(24-05-2013 03:36 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  What the hell does all the gun talk have to do with OP? You want to debate guns (or discuss what *could* have happened but didnt) find another thread because there are many of those to chose from.

Drinking Beverage

I merely pointed out that Holmes and Watson would have pulled out their Webleys and blown those fuckheads away.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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