Brittany Maynard - Her right to choose
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04-11-2014, 08:33 PM
RE: Brittany Maynard - Her right to choose
(04-11-2014 08:27 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 08:24 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  I promise, I'm civil Big Grin

You having an emotional reaction to the subject is natural. It's death - it's big, looming, and scary. I gotta say I'm more afraid of having no control at the end.

Imagine this scenario: you're told by your doctor that you have six months to a year to live. Your health will deteriorate rapidly. Eventually every hour of every day will be filled with agony. The pain pills aren't enough to help you sleep. Your family members will have to watch you die, make sure you take your medicine, clean up after you. You can't leave the house for anything but hospital visits. You can't hold conversations with your friends or family because you're delirious from the pain, the medication, and lack of sleep. All the while you will never get better. There is no reprieve. No light at the end of the tunnel. Nothing to strive for. Nothing to fight for. No joy left. You will be in this state getting worse and worse until you die. Your loved ones watching helplessly. Waiting for the end, and dreading it at the same time. Going broke on hospital bills, paying for in home nurses, or having to quit a job to care for you.

Wouldn't it piss you off if you could just have a doctor prescribe a lethal dose of medicine that would help you die in peace when you were ready, and you were told that you didn't have the right to make that choice for yourself and your family?

Most people who choose to end their lives in this scenario don't do so lightly. They squeeze every last drop of joy out of life, and do it when living has become unbearable.

Glad you're examining your thoughts on this, we need more people willing to confront the issue so that people have the right to choose. I really suggest the How to Die in Oregon documentary. If that doesn't change your mind, nothing will.
Logically it all makes since. So I do get and understand the points. Something just does not sit right. Could be a holdover from my catholic upbringing.

Does it not sit right with you to allow the right to others, or does it not sit right to have the option available to you? I guess what it gets down to for me, is other people shouldn't be allowed to make the decision for me (unless I'm unable, In which case I've made my wishes very clear to immediate family).

Do you feel as if it's something we shouldn't allow? Or are you ok with people having the option, but you just feel "off" about it in some way?

I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
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04-11-2014, 08:36 PM
RE: Brittany Maynard - Her right to choose
(04-11-2014 08:30 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 08:27 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Logically it all makes since. So I do get and understand the points. Something just does not sit right. Could be a holdover from my catholic upbringing.

I bet you nailed it. Catholic upbringing.

I hope you are never in the situation to have to make a similar decision or to watch a loved one experience an agonizing, inevitable death - I think that you would look at things a different way now that you know that all the prayer in the world won't help.

We kind of did lot long ago. My grandmother had a stroke and slipped into a coma. My mom and aunt had a hard time pulling the feeding tube even when the dr said she was not going to make it and the tube was just drawing out the process. They did pull the tube and she died a day or so later. I am glad she did not linger. I do not think my mom could have handled seeing her waist away.
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04-11-2014, 08:39 PM
RE: Brittany Maynard - Her right to choose
(04-11-2014 08:33 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 08:27 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Logically it all makes since. So I do get and understand the points. Something just does not sit right. Could be a holdover from my catholic upbringing.

Does it not sit right with you to allow the right to others, or does it not sit right to have the option available to you? I guess what it gets down to for me, is other people shouldn't be allowed to make the decision for me (unless I'm unable, In which case I've made my wishes very clear to immediate family).

Do you feel as if it's something we shouldn't allow? Or are you ok with people having the option, but you just feel "off" about it in some way?

Mostly just off. I have an easier time when a person takes care of it themselves. I am much less easy when others are involved.
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04-11-2014, 08:42 PM
RE: Brittany Maynard - Her right to choose
(04-11-2014 08:39 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 08:33 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Does it not sit right with you to allow the right to others, or does it not sit right to have the option available to you? I guess what it gets down to for me, is other people shouldn't be allowed to make the decision for me (unless I'm unable, In which case I've made my wishes very clear to immediate family).

Do you feel as if it's something we shouldn't allow? Or are you ok with people having the option, but you just feel "off" about it in some way?

Mostly just off. I have an easier time when a person takes care of it themselves. I am much less easy when others are involved.

So what do you think in my dad's situation? His medicine was at his house. He certainly couldn't get to it so his friend brought it to him. She knew why. He had already turned down any further treatments other than pain control.

I watched a nurse walk out of his room and slump against the wall crying. She said she could not give him enough pain medication to control the pain without killing him. And she couldn't legally do that.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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04-11-2014, 08:44 PM
RE: Brittany Maynard - Her right to choose
(04-11-2014 08:39 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 08:33 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Does it not sit right with you to allow the right to others, or does it not sit right to have the option available to you? I guess what it gets down to for me, is other people shouldn't be allowed to make the decision for me (unless I'm unable, In which case I've made my wishes very clear to immediate family).

Do you feel as if it's something we shouldn't allow? Or are you ok with people having the option, but you just feel "off" about it in some way?

Mostly just off. I have an easier time when a person takes care of it themselves. I am much less easy when others are involved.

I can understand that. You start to wonder if it's what the patient actually wants, or if a doctor has gone off the rails.

I think it's pretty unlikely doctors would start pushing for the option, and honestly I'd want a doctor involved to make sure I did it safely, in a way that allows for minimal pain, and that I get it right.

Right now there are quite a few hoops to jump through in the states where it is legal. This ensures that the patient is making the decision, and that they know what the decision means.

I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
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04-11-2014, 08:54 PM
RE: Brittany Maynard - Her right to choose
(04-11-2014 08:42 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 08:39 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Mostly just off. I have an easier time when a person takes care of it themselves. I am much less easy when others are involved.

So what do you think in my dad's situation? His medicine was at his house. He certainly couldn't get to it so his friend brought it to him. She knew why. He had already turned down any further treatments other than pain control.

I watched a nurse walk out of his room and slump against the wall crying. She said she could not give him enough pain medication to control the pain without killing him. And she couldn't legally do that.

Conflicted.
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04-11-2014, 09:01 PM
RE: Brittany Maynard - Her right to choose
(04-11-2014 08:54 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 08:42 PM)Anjele Wrote:  So what do you think in my dad's situation? His medicine was at his house. He certainly couldn't get to it so his friend brought it to him. She knew why. He had already turned down any further treatments other than pain control.

I watched a nurse walk out of his room and slump against the wall crying. She said she could not give him enough pain medication to control the pain without killing him. And she couldn't legally do that.

Conflicted.

Fair enough - it's an honest answer.

I had pretty much made up my mind on the issue before dad got so bad. But the last few months of his life wiped out all conflict from my mind.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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04-11-2014, 09:05 PM (This post was last modified: 04-11-2014 09:21 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Brittany Maynard - Her right to choose
(04-11-2014 05:46 PM)Nurse Wrote:  I had to watch a woman guppy breathe all night last night while we waited on her to die after withdrawing care (meaning turned off the ventilator, pulled the breathing tube). She was still suffering when I clocked out this morning. Sadcryface There's no compassion in that! I say open the fentanyl drip wide open.

Took my gramma and grampa a week before they succumbed. It was inhumane. ManlyGirl's dogs get a more humane exit.

#sigh
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05-11-2014, 07:25 AM
RE: Brittany Maynard - Her right to choose
(04-11-2014 09:01 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(04-11-2014 08:54 PM)wazzel Wrote:  Conflicted.

Fair enough - it's an honest answer.

I had pretty much made up my mind on the issue before dad got so bad. But the last few months of his life wiped out all conflict from my mind.

Sorry for the short answer, I had to help kids with homework, then went to bed.

I have had the misfortune of watching 3 grandparents and one of my wife's grandparents wither away due to nasty illnesses. I really am conflicted about how I feel about keeping them comfortable vs helping them die. In all 4 of our cases, when the end was unavoidable the families stopped any kind of aid (vents, feeding tubes, etc) and just kept pain meds so they could go. In all but once case the completely disabled stage only lasted a week or so. My mom's dad had a brain tumor and that drug on for a while. It was really sad to see him go from a big strong man to a vegetable. I was just a kid, but took his loss the hardest of all my grandparents.
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05-11-2014, 04:45 PM
RE: Brittany Maynard - Her right to choose
There are 3 different scenarios and people might feel different about them.
  • A fatally ill person takes his/her own life, unassisted.
  • Physician-assisted suicide.
  • Loved one-assisted suicide.

I think all of them should be legal with reasonable safeguards like witnesses, present consent, prior consent, other?
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