Broken promise?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-03-2013, 03:45 PM (This post was last modified: 19-03-2013 11:04 PM by f stop.)
Broken promise?
I don't really have a problem here, or even a question. I just want to vent.

My wife is Catholic. When we got married I promised to raise our children as Catholic. For years we went to mass together every Sunday and other Holy Days. We went to mass on days when I thought the roads were dangerous and unfit to drive on. I never really took part in these ceremonies. I felt like an anthropologist observing primitive peoples. Interesting for a while. Some of the "fire and brimstone" sermons were even quite amusing. Eventually I tired of it and quit going.

We have three daughters and a son. The youngest will be 32 next month. The three girls share my views on religion. My son still goes to mass.

I never discussed religion with my children but they did somehow become aware of my views. I don't think I broke my promise to raise them as Catholics. Once they become adults they make their own choices. I really think my girls got their religious views at college.

It will probably not come as a surprise to anyone here that my girls all went to college. My son, the religious one, has only a high school diploma.

"You're a good man, Dad," my son keeps telling me, "you'll be the only atheist in heaven." I hope not. If atheists get into heaven I want to meet Christopher Hitchens.

Some say the world will end in fire
Others say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I side with those who favor fire.
But then ice is also nice
And would suffice.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-03-2013, 04:02 PM
RE: Broken promise?
You're done raising them, I hope, since the youngest is 32. Maybe it's time to consider your promise fulfilled and start having some heart-to-heart talks with your son.

Such as, tell him that good works are not the path to heaven and that his god really doesn't allow any atheists in heaven (which he already knows or he wouldn't pretend you're going to be the only exception; if god actually let atheists in, you would not be the only one) so it's time for him to grow up and accept the fact that his dad will burn in hell for eternity - or grow up and realize that grown men don't need to cling to childhood fantasies and iron age mythology.

Or find that middle ground and ask him to really reflect on the nature of god - would any super intelligent, all knowing, all powerful entity capable of creating this magnificent universe and our wonderful planet with the amazing diversity of life, be such a total nimrod about blaming a thousand generations of humans for a mistake by one man and woman, especially when he never taught that man and woman the difference between right and wrong? Would that incredible entity create a universe where more than 80% of all human souls MUST burn in hell for eternity, and if he did, would he really be such a petty jerk as to actually enforce that asinine policy? Would such an amazing entity run around messing with everything and everyone for thousands of years, from Adam & Eve through Jesus, working miracles, slaughtering armies, hardening Pharaoh's heart, etc., then just disappear, never to be heard from again except as an occasional face on a piece of toast? Implore him to really think about it, really ask himself if, outside of his church mysticism and indoctrination, if any of this crap makes sense for a mega-awesome deity to behave this way, create such an amazing universe and then spend the rest of his time acting like a spoiled child, or hiding altogether.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-03-2013, 12:48 PM
RE: Broken promise?
Even though my son is of age, 39 next month, I think my wife would consider the promise broken if I actively tried to persuade him to my way of thinking. I would agree. The promise was for life, not just until the kids were grown. If he comes around to my way of thinking, that's one thing. Me actively trying to persuade him is another.

My wife believes that my ceasing to attend mass was the trigger to the girl's unbelief. Maybe, but I think all three went off to college as believers and came home atheists.

I've thought about this since my original post. My statement that I ceased to attend mass because I no longer found it amusing is not quite the whole story. I actually find it unpleasant, if not downright painful, to go to mass. Once I lost interest in observing the proceedings as an outsider I came to regard the homily as verbal abuse, the man in the pulpit raving at me, telling me I was going to hell if I did not accept his illogical world view.

Some say the world will end in fire
Others say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I side with those who favor fire.
But then ice is also nice
And would suffice.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-03-2013, 01:21 PM
RE: Broken promise?
My mother made the same promise to raise us three kids as Catholics. Even when I was in public schools, she went along wtih taking me to catechism on Saturday mornings and made sure I had the appropriate supplies (head covering, rosary, dress clothes, etc.) but she didn't even go so far as to attend mass unless it was a wedding or funeral. But she really didn't discuss religion with us. She also did nothing to stand in the way of the religious traditions and ceremonies.
Then dad found Sunday morning golf so he was out of the loop too. I suppose they felt plopping us into Catholic schools meant their job was done. I would have to see my dad as more of the promise-breaker. He was the Catholic that drug us all into it.
I left the church completely in my early to mid 20s. My sister sings in a choir for some church in Chicago but she is only there for the singing (it's not a Catholic church), she puts little weight on religion, my brother had rejoined the Church to get a tuition discount for his son to attend Catholic HS...I think he has lapsed again.
Okay, you made a promise to do something FOREVER when you were young and in love. And then life stepped in and things changed...shit happens. I doubt you went into it with false intentions.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Anjele's post
20-03-2013, 01:43 PM
RE: Broken promise?
I agree with the other posters. You agreed to RAISE them catholic. They are all grown up, you raised them already. The deed is done and the promise is kept.
No one said anything about not being able to have an adult conversation with a grown son.
I don't think there is any need for you to de-convert him, but there is definitely a need to be honest.

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dom's post
20-03-2013, 02:37 PM
RE: Broken promise?
I want to thank everyone for their input. God bless you if He exists.

Some say the world will end in fire
Others say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I side with those who favor fire.
But then ice is also nice
And would suffice.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-03-2013, 07:11 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2013 07:38 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Broken promise?
(19-03-2013 03:45 PM)f stop Wrote:  My wife is Catholic. When we got married I promised to raise our children as Catholic.

Did you promise that to her? Or do you think you promised that to the Catholic church? 'Cause you didn't. I didn't have to promise that to the Catholic church when I married a good Catholic girl some 27 years ago now in front of a priest in a Catholic church. I promised not to interfere with raising our children as Catholic. I most certainly did not promise to participate in that. And the church, to its credit, did not require that of me.

(19-03-2013 03:45 PM)f stop Wrote:  I felt like an anthropologist observing primitive peoples. Interesting for a while. Some of the "fire and brimstone" sermons were even quite amusing.

That's a bit harsh. A few times I might've felt like a sociologist observing a different culture, but most times I felt the same as when my wife drags me to the Kennedy Center to see some sorta opera or ballet or concert or play that GirlyMan couldn't give less of a shit 'bout seeing. "Well, this is gonna bore the shit outta me." I've found that pre-staging and prepping with booze and other assorted sacraments not only helped, the pomp and circumstance is actually entertaining. Just gotta prep for it. ... And don't think I've ever seen what I would consider a "fire and brimstone" sermon in a Catholic church. Pentecostals and Evangelicals and Southern Baptists maybe, but can't recall seeing a Catholic one.

(19-03-2013 03:45 PM)f stop Wrote:  I never discussed religion with my children but they did somehow become aware of my views.

All my children asked me about this shit in their mid-teens.Told 'em "The promise of a postmortem preservation of identity is utter and completely untenable bullshit nonsense. If they're selling that they're just fucking snake oil salesman. If they're not selling that, they might be worth a look." I didn't break no promise by answering a question honestly. I never proffered it to them. I kept my promise to the Catholic church. ... All 4 of mine ended up fine young atheist/agnostics anyway.

(19-03-2013 03:45 PM)f stop Wrote:  "You're a good man, Dad," my son keeps telling me, "you'll be the only atheist in heaven."

Only atheists go to heaven.

Breathing - it's more art than science.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-03-2013, 04:33 PM
RE: Broken promise?
(20-03-2013 07:11 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-03-2013 03:45 PM)f stop Wrote:  I felt like an anthropologist observing primitive peoples. Interesting for a while. Some of the "fire and brimstone" sermons were even quite amusing.

That's a bit harsh.
But accurate. The ceremonies have their origins in the bronze age.
(20-03-2013 07:11 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  And don't think I've ever seen what I would consider a "fire and brimstone" sermon in a Catholic church. Pentecostals and Evangelicals and Southern Baptists maybe, but can't recall seeing a Catholic one.
Most of them are not "fire and brimstone" but I do recall one priest who railed about the rock opera Jesus Christ Superstar and the "heresy" of "do your own thing," a popular saying at the time. I can only describe his fervor as fire and brimstone.

Some say the world will end in fire
Others say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I side with those who favor fire.
But then ice is also nice
And would suffice.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: