Brown People Redux
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14-02-2011, 12:38 PM
RE: Brown People Redux
Again , PROVE these women know they have a choice and make one willingly and not forced by their peers !!!
If they want to they can wear as much or as little clothing as they want , but first they should know they have the right to not wear a burka. I'm not convinced that some of these communities allow women to even know they have rights.
(I'm referring to fundamentalist groups)

If they want to wear a burka , fine by me , but they first have to know it's their choice and no one can force them to wear one.

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

Proud of my genetic relatives Big Grin
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14-02-2011, 01:05 PM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2011 01:15 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Brown People Redux
(14-02-2011 12:38 PM)gaglamesh731 Wrote:  Again , PROVE these women know they have a choice and make one willingly and not forced by their peers !!!

Prove that other people know something? I can't even prove an understanding of your mind Galgamesh, let alone the minds of people unnamed and unspoken for. My statement is that these women have all stated to this country that they are aware, and if they aren't then they are free to avoid awareness. They are past the age in which they cannot make harmful decisions, so you can't simply say, "Hey some of these women might not know, so lets pass a law that requires all of these women to avoid wearing the Burqa". This is the same argument as saying, "Some Mexicans do not know English, though they live in our country. So, all Mexicans in the US should be forced to go to an ESL course so that they know English". Is that what's going on? or did they start placing signs in Spanish so that those who willingly dissent can continue not knowing english.

As far as whether their peers pressure them, when exactly has the government banned peer pressure? prove that to me and then I'll give you a rebuttal.

Whether I agree with a law or not, I live in the US, this means that these laws exist to protect me and others. We can't simply ignore them when it's convenient, or the religious communities will be able to stamp out opposition quite easily.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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14-02-2011, 01:28 PM
RE: Brown People Redux
I don't endorse anti burka laws , I just find it offensive that some cultures consider women should be covered up due to religious laws and bigotry.
Peer pressure can't be banned, but it's effects can't be ignored either. Support needs to be given to people that can't always stand up for themselves.This was the case with gay teenagers that committed suicide due to discrimination, pressure from their peers to not be who they wore.
What I'm arguing for is education , letting women know that the west does not endorse religious laws and if their community is discriminating against them because of religion they can find shelter with a secular state.

Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

Proud of my genetic relatives Big Grin
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14-02-2011, 01:49 PM
RE: Brown People Redux
We are supplying education. To all women under the age of 18. Women who are beyond the age of 18 can choose to seek out education. There may be things that should not happen, which do happen, but you can't answer these by asking us to change laws in ways that open up possibilities for other views.

I speak out on behalf of intersexed and transsexual people. I go to places and let them know my opinions and that I am both intersexed and transsexual. Educating gay teenagers falls into educating people under the age of consent. Once someone becomes a legal adult they have the option to choose not to do something. If you want to spread the message about personal will to Islamic women, then you should go canvas Islamic areas, and make statements on Islamic forums. The question of whether someone is being oppressed is not always one that mandates government intervention.

I'm oppressed at nearly all times by people who don't know exactly what they dislike. People who have never met me are determining issues that affect my rights in ways that others cannot be affected. I am fighting for an amendment to fully protect me under all human rights in the US, but that doesn't mean it has to happen. And to educate people about who it is they are oppressing, my best options are to canvas areas and discuss my views on public forums. No one has to be made aware of the fact that they oppress me.

Why am I defending ignorance then? Because, I was once in a psych ward, where a psychiatrist whom I disagreed with felt I needed to take certain medications. My choice to not take those medications is an important choice to me. I did not feel that pyschiatrist had my best interests on mind. Yet you would suggest that because I was not a psychiatrist, that he was more capable of determining my best interest? You have the right to state your opinions and try to convince others to listen. But you can't force adults to do what you feel is right, and it is very dangerous ground if you want this ability.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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