Buddhism
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21-08-2013, 01:32 PM
RE: Buddhism
(21-08-2013 12:52 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(21-08-2013 12:37 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  Sounds a lot like Scientology when you put it like that...

How so?

That pain can be transcended through physical and mental processes. That's essentially what "dianetics" is all about.

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21-08-2013, 01:37 PM
RE: Buddhism
I actually studied Buddhism in college (studied, not practiced).

This is the cliff notes version.

Buddhism if an offshoot of Hinduism, in a similar away that Christianity is an off shot of Judaism. The mythology that Buddhism is derived from is the mythology of Hinduism. The only part of Hinduism I’ll explain here is what’s important to understanding Buddhism. Hindus believe in this kind of idea of the ultimate reality which we are all part of (I’m paraphrasing very intensely strongly here, FYI). It is all reality, everything that is, that isn’t that can and cannot be, all thoughts, energy, matter, reality, everything, and it’s all one. For the sack of this conversation, being about Buddhism, it doesn’t matter whether this is considered God or not.

If you imagine the ultimate reality of all things as a vast ocean, imagine a single drop splashing off of the ocean. That drop is part of the ocean but seems to be separate from it. Imagine the drop as your soul, atman. When the drop adds back to the ocean it is again one with the ultimate reality.

Buddhist think of the ultimate reality, the ocean in this metaphor, as Nirvana. We are not separate from it, the universe, god, whatever you want to call it. We are part of it. We are the drop that became separated and became confused believing we are not a part of it. That we have this false belief of the illusion that we are our own thing, have our own separate soul. This is an illusion, what Buddhist and Hindus refer to as Maya (Hindus refer to Maya as an actual God, although that even gets complicated and unclear).

You can think of Maya, illusion of separation from the ultimate reality of oneness of the universe and all things or god or whatever, and think of it like an onion. In the center of the onion is our soul, our true self, the part of us that is one with the ultimate reality, that is in fact part of it. But we don’t know it because we are wrapped up in the illusion of the self or ego.

Buddhism believes in stripping away the layers of that onion. The layers being things like wants, desires, ego, identity, material positions, relationships. Anything that identifies you as distinct, and separate from the rest of reality. The idea is to strip yourself down to the core essence of the true self, your atman or soul, by removing the need and desire for all these things. Once you’ve achieved this, and removed all worldly desires, wants and needs you will have then achieved “enlightenment”. Enlightenment means that you are now free of earthly ties or fetters, and have reached your true self, your true soul, your atman, the drop of water from the ocean. And you know you are that drop of water connected to the ocean of all reality. You now again have access to the ultimate reality, Nirvana.

Once you’ve achieved this you can recombine with the ultimate reality, otherwise known as Nirvana and become one with it again, leaving no boundaries or distinctions between yourself and it. If you are still alive you are enlightened, but are only in Nirvana when you leave this form and join with it again. In other words you have to be dead.

If you don’t achieve enlightenment in your life you are reborn in a new life form through the process of samsara, the cycle of birth, life, death, and rebirth that never ends until you achieve enlightenment and nirvana, and rejoin your drop with the ocean. If you weren’t as good in this life you could be born into a lesser life, less enlightened. If you were more enlightened in this life you would be born into a better life. This is Karma, which actually has a lot more to do with Hinduism and the caste system. The Buddha taught that you could skip over the caste system of slowly being born into more and more enlightened beings, and achieve it all in one life time. Even the lowest caste, the so-called “untouchables” could achieve enlightenment and reach Nirvana within their own lives.

There is still a lot more stuff, and like with Christianity over the years sects do with the mythos as they will so it may be different from practitioner to practitioner, but that’s the outline of it.

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21-08-2013, 01:39 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2013 04:18 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Buddhism
All the other details of Buddhism are about how to achieve enlightenment in one's own life. Limit suffering, Dharma, and the four noble truths, and the eight fold path...

Blah, blah, blah...

I can go in to more detail if you like? Just depends on how much you want to know, and what specifically you want to know about it.

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21-08-2013, 01:56 PM
RE: Buddhism
So this is an ascetic religion?

But the more enlightened enjoy lives with more riches?

Does not compute, does not compute...error Confused

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21-08-2013, 02:31 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2013 02:48 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Buddhism
(21-08-2013 01:56 PM)Dom Wrote:  So this is an ascetic religion?

But the more enlightened enjoy lives with more riches?

Does not compute, does not compute...error Confused

Well the Buddha himself, Siddhartha Gautama, was an ascetic at one point, and lead a life of excess at another point in an effort to detriment how best to achieve enlightenment. He ended up following the “middle path”, no extremes. At least that is the mythos of the Buddha. Buddha being a title by the way, anyone could be a Buddha. (not that any of it’s true of course)

I’m not sure why you wrote, “But the more enlightened enjoy lives with more riches?” I think you are referring to what I said about the Hindu caste system and karma and samsara. The Buddha, Siddhartha, broke those distinctions down, by allowing anyone at any point in the samsara karma cycle to achieve enlightenment. But yes, that is the bases for the caste system in India and Hinduism. Those born into privilege and wealth earned it in a previous life, and those born into poverty or with disabilities earned it as punishment for something they had done bad in a past life. By virtue of their birth if they were born in abject conditions they were considered the same as murderers, rapist, or thieves, as it was assumed these are the things they were being punished for in a past life.

In India the “untouchables” are those at the lowest rung in the caste system, so low that they could be killed if even their shadow touches the shadow of an upper caste member because their karma is that bad. I don’t know how severe this is in modern India, but it is part of the caste system. It’s the bases and justification of a lot of class oppression in that country.

The Buddha broke that distinction for his followers, so you could see how this would be appealing to many lower caste members at the time.

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21-08-2013, 02:34 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2013 02:51 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Buddhism
By the way, the cycle of samsara and karma didn’t end at people and achieving enlightenment. It also applies to all living things. At some point in our former lives we could have been a blade of grass (well the whole grass plant actually), or a snail. As a snail you had to very slowly go through the cycle of samsara and karma to work your way up to maybe a frog one day. Then maybe a lizard, then maybe a rat, or a cat or monkey, until you are finally reborn into a human where you do the real work.

Buddhist aren’t so concerned about the karma samsara cycle, which again is derived from Hinduism. They are more concerned about what you do here and now in this life. But they do have a belief it in, even if they say they aren’t’ concerned about it. That’s why they are all vegetarians. They don’t want to kill and eat someone in their current life as a chicken. That would be the same as murdering a human being, no difference. That wouldn’t be good for their personal karma and spiritual advancement.

They also refuse to kill bugs. But I also catch spiders and release them outside rather than kill them, so whatever.

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21-08-2013, 02:55 PM
RE: Buddhism
Yabut...if our spirit or whatever is being reborn over and over again, so then how do we get added new spirits? How can the population increase?

The lowest life form appears spontaneously in increasing numbers?

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21-08-2013, 03:02 PM
RE: Buddhism
(21-08-2013 01:32 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  
(21-08-2013 12:52 PM)Dom Wrote:  How so?

That pain can be transcended through physical and mental processes. That's essentially what "dianetics" is all about.

No, it is not pain that is transcended in Buddhism, it is suffering. And Dianetics is about treating and curing, not transcending.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-08-2013, 03:21 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2013 03:37 PM by Raptor Jesus.)
RE: Buddhism
(21-08-2013 02:55 PM)Dom Wrote:  Yabut...if our spirit or whatever is being reborn over and over again, so then how do we get added new spirits? How can the population increase?

The lowest life form appears spontaneously in increasing numbers?

"Drops" off the "ocean". A piece (atman, or soul) of the devine, or ultimate reality, or god, or Nirvana, or whatever you want to call it seperates and gets wrapped in the illusion of the self, of "Maya".

If you're asking what the mechanism is by which the atman/soul breaks apart from the divine, or ultimate reality, or god, or whatever…it’s religion…they don’t bother to explain that stuff.

That’s like asking a Christian where the new souls come from that fill the new baby fetuses? There are no real answers in religion.

In the case of Hinduism/Buddhism, maybe they do have an answer for how the atman/soul breaks away from the divine/whatever, but I’m not aware of it in any case. Or maybe I just doen't remember. If it comes back to me I'll tell you what they say, but off the top of my head I don't know that they came up with some mythology to answer that question.

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21-08-2013, 03:35 PM
RE: Buddhism
Seems like an oversight, it was the first question that popped into my mind.

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