Building a PC - few questions
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14-05-2013, 04:22 PM
Building a PC - few questions
I'm building a new rig, but I have some questions. Mostly about OC & GPU

Heres my plan, and what I have so far:

Case: Rosewill Blackhawk-Ultra (Got it today, absolutely massive case)
PSU: Corsair HX850 Gold (Got it)
Ram: 32gb Gskill Ripjaws DDR3 1866 (Got it)
SSD: 256gb OCZ Vector (Got it)
CPU cooler: Noctua NH-D14

GPU: Nvidia Titan OR 2x SLI GTX 780 (release May 23)

CPU: Intel Haswell 4770K (June)
Mobo: Undecided and unreleased LGA 1150 board (June)


Now, where I have issues (which may not have answers until next month anyway):

The Nvidia Titan has 6gb vram, and retails for $999
The unreleased GTX 780 is either 3gb, or 5gb, and will retail anywhere from $500 - 750...

The 780s in SLI will no doubt be faster than a single Titan, BUT if the 780 is released with only 3gb vram, I'm not sure how it will hold up to games later this year (BF4 on ultra). I will likely continue to game on a single monitor @ 1080p... So it may not matter for now, but I can't help but feel 3gb may not be enough to get me through 2014. If the 780 is released with 5gb vram, an SLI on that is the obvious choice... Input?

The Noctua NH-D14 is already known to be compatible with the Haswell CPUs, but I think that haswell will have a smaller surface area than the Ivy or Sandy bridge chips, and the cooler would then remove less heat. Has anyone used air cooling for an overclock before? Can I expect a stable 4.5ghz OC on air? Ambient temps are never much problem in Canadian basements...

Also, what kind of set up you got?
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14-05-2013, 10:03 PM
RE: Building a PC - few questions
You clearly have waaay too much money to spend, if you're travelling THAT far up the price/performance curve (all that for a single 1080p output!).

Either buy a 4k monitor (or three), or maybe settle for a 4670K, 16GB RAM, and a pair of 670s. Then you can use the savings (which will be many hundreds of dollars...) to spend a month on a Caribbean beach with more rum and cigars than one mortal should be able to handle.

As for useful advice - air cooling is fine. I'm overclocking my current setup (3570K... sniff...) by, oh, 20-25% (can't remember offhand) and it idles at ~32C (sits around 55C at sustained max load). That's with a CoolerMaster 212. Anyway, your case is MASSIVE, so just load 'er up with fans (mind, check your air flow - it's usually pretty easy to optimize) and it'll be like a wind tunnel in there.
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14-05-2013, 10:58 PM
RE: Building a PC - few questions
Yup, single 1080p. I don't have room for two more monitors... unless I run two smaller ones in portrait mode on the sides (PLP), but thats not supported by eyefinity, and I think softTH only runs DX9.

As far as having too much money... Most of the components aren't that expensive, and $1000 to $1500 on GPUs is nothing compared to the cost of a 4K tv! Those things are like $10,000+

Or maybe you mean 1440p?
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15-05-2013, 09:47 AM
RE: Building a PC - few questions
No, I did mean proper 4k - though as suggestions go, it was not, in case it wasn't clear, meant entirely seriously...

That much gear on a single 1080 screen is going to be overkill any way you slice it; even if I could afford it, I'd never bother. But, there's definitely something to be said for going with the best of the best, so knock yourself out! I will just be envious here on the sidelines. More VRAM is probably going to give you better returns than a nominally faster card. In your position I'd lean toward a 7990 myself; dunno how set on brand you are.

I only just scraped together the funds for my own system at the start of the year, so, that done, I haven't followed the tech news too closely since then. The one thing I can 100% vouch for is air cooling. My last couple systems were fine to air-cool, and that's with a substantial overclock. Good coolers are, well, plenty good enough - and good aftermarket CPU coolers are everywhere these days, despite Intel being their usual shitty selves with the stock ones. GPU coolers are all very nice these days (though, some do tend towards jet engine impressions when taxed). Extra cooling fins on the motherboard also help; most high-end ones have plenty. Only in retrospect is tying a 40mm fan to the southbridge chip a fun thing to do. Good riddance to it.

So yes. Air cooling is the way to go. A good air path through the case (easy to work out, when you've got front, bottom, top, side, and back casefans to play with in size, speed, loading, direction) can keep you idling only a couple degrees above ambient.

The only reason to go all out (liquid) is if you're planning on overclocking in, like, the 40-50% or greater range. Which, now that I think about it, would really call for a bigger PSU anyway. And since the performance limiting factor is going to be HD or internet ANYWAY in most applications, I'd say the instability from going that far wouldn't be worth it (especially given the stock speeds will already punch most applications in the face).
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15-05-2013, 11:35 AM
RE: Building a PC - few questions
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15-05-2013, 11:39 AM
RE: Building a PC - few questions
(14-05-2013 04:22 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  I'm building a new rig, but I have some questions. Mostly about OC & GPU

Heres my plan, and what I have so far:

Case: Rosewill Blackhawk-Ultra (Got it today, absolutely massive case)
PSU: Corsair HX850 Gold (Got it)
Ram: 32gb Gskill Ripjaws DDR3 1866 (Got it)
SSD: 256gb OCZ Vector (Got it)
CPU cooler: Noctua NH-D14

GPU: Nvidia Titan OR 2x SLI GTX 780 (release May 23)

CPU: Intel Haswell 4770K (June)
Mobo: Undecided and unreleased LGA 1150 board (June)


Now, where I have issues (which may not have answers until next month anyway):

The Nvidia Titan has 6gb vram, and retails for $999
The unreleased GTX 780 is either 3gb, or 5gb, and will retail anywhere from $500 - 750...

The 780s in SLI will no doubt be faster than a single Titan, BUT if the 780 is released with only 3gb vram, I'm not sure how it will hold up to games later this year (BF4 on ultra). I will likely continue to game on a single monitor @ 1080p... So it may not matter for now, but I can't help but feel 3gb may not be enough to get me through 2014. If the 780 is released with 5gb vram, an SLI on that is the obvious choice... Input?

The Noctua NH-D14 is already known to be compatible with the Haswell CPUs, but I think that haswell will have a smaller surface area than the Ivy or Sandy bridge chips, and the cooler would then remove less heat. Has anyone used air cooling for an overclock before? Can I expect a stable 4.5ghz OC on air? Ambient temps are never much problem in Canadian basements...

Also, what kind of set up you got?

What are you using this system for? It's overkill for most purposes.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-05-2013, 11:41 AM
RE: Building a PC - few questions
(15-05-2013 11:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-05-2013 04:22 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  I'm building a new rig, but I have some questions. Mostly about OC & GPU

Heres my plan, and what I have so far:

Case: Rosewill Blackhawk-Ultra (Got it today, absolutely massive case)
PSU: Corsair HX850 Gold (Got it)
Ram: 32gb Gskill Ripjaws DDR3 1866 (Got it)
SSD: 256gb OCZ Vector (Got it)
CPU cooler: Noctua NH-D14

GPU: Nvidia Titan OR 2x SLI GTX 780 (release May 23)

CPU: Intel Haswell 4770K (June)
Mobo: Undecided and unreleased LGA 1150 board (June)


Now, where I have issues (which may not have answers until next month anyway):

The Nvidia Titan has 6gb vram, and retails for $999
The unreleased GTX 780 is either 3gb, or 5gb, and will retail anywhere from $500 - 750...

The 780s in SLI will no doubt be faster than a single Titan, BUT if the 780 is released with only 3gb vram, I'm not sure how it will hold up to games later this year (BF4 on ultra). I will likely continue to game on a single monitor @ 1080p... So it may not matter for now, but I can't help but feel 3gb may not be enough to get me through 2014. If the 780 is released with 5gb vram, an SLI on that is the obvious choice... Input?

The Noctua NH-D14 is already known to be compatible with the Haswell CPUs, but I think that haswell will have a smaller surface area than the Ivy or Sandy bridge chips, and the cooler would then remove less heat. Has anyone used air cooling for an overclock before? Can I expect a stable 4.5ghz OC on air? Ambient temps are never much problem in Canadian basements...

Also, what kind of set up you got?

What are you using this system for? It's overkill for most purposes.

At least he wont have to upgrade for a while...

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15-05-2013, 03:53 PM
RE: Building a PC - few questions
(15-05-2013 11:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  What are you using this system for? It's overkill for most purposes.

In no particular order:

- Photoshop work with raw DSLR stuff
- TTA
- Music production
- Gaming
- Some occasional video editing and effects work
- Porn

My current rig (i5 2500K, 16gb, GTX 580s) is only 2 years old, and does all that stuff fine... I just want a new toy.

With some orchestral pieces I've made, the number of sampled sounds can use a lot of ram... Still haven't gone over 10gb of the 16gb I currently have. Photoshop also chugs a bit with some functions, and I plan to start taking 4K video this summer. But still, 99% of the time, it will be overkill... And that other 1% of the time would be better handled by a 3930K with its 6 cores.
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15-05-2013, 04:06 PM
RE: Building a PC - few questions
(15-05-2013 03:53 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 11:39 AM)Chas Wrote:  What are you using this system for? It's overkill for most purposes.

In no particular order:

- Photoshop work with raw DSLR stuff
- TTA
- Music production
- Gaming
- Some occasional video editing and effects work
- Porn

My current rig (i5 2500K, 16gb, GTX 580s) is only 2 years old, and does all that stuff fine... I just want a new toy.

With some orchestral pieces I've made, the number of sampled sounds can use a lot of ram... Still haven't gone over 10gb of the 16gb I currently have. Photoshop also chugs a bit with some functions, and I plan to start taking 4K video this summer. But still, 99% of the time, it will be overkill... And that other 1% of the time would be better handled by a 3930K with its 6 cores.

"New toy" is a fine answer. Thumbsup

I do raw DSLR image editing, software development, and VM hosting with an 8 processor/16Gb server I built.

I'm a fan of multiple monitors on a system, as others have suggested. Two is easy, either side-by-side or one raised above the other. I prefer the latter.

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16-05-2013, 10:07 AM
RE: Building a PC - few questions
Hello.

I like to see these kind of questions here: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ox?page=28 because I will usually miss them and I do have some input here. You were lucky this time. Smile

That being said, I am amazed that none of you said RAID. RAID, minimum 2 SSDs in RAID, if you are spending this much money why not go with even more? RAID 0 for speed. Or if you want safety of your data then RAID 1 or RAID 5.

Water cooling vs. air cooling... Noise is the thing you didn't consider here. Water cooling is better for multiple reasons. Since money is not the issue here, why save money on this? Water cooling is quiet, gives you more cooling and more OC options. Also, there are not so many air coolers for i7, or at least there weren't when I was getting i7 Extreme for my customer a few months ago. So you will probably have a bigger choice of water systems.

Graphic card with 3 GB of VRAM is more than enough, specially if you plan on putting 2 of them in SLI. Both are high-end graphics, so both options are equally good and both will be mostly used for gaming. CPU is more important here for work with those applications you said you are using. What I want to say is that you can't go wrong with either option, BUT, if you now take one graphic card (Titan), you can always upgrade it later with one more in SLI, right? If you take SLI now, you can't upgrade it later, you can, but you need to change 2 cards then. If you ever feel the need for upgrading this... Ever.

Don't listen to them, nothing is ever overkill if you can afford it.

And now for something completely different. It is called a Workstation, not a PC and a good thing about it is the not-normal motherboard, 2 or more CPU slots and much better disk controllers than any "normal" motherboard, special attention is on RAID controllers.

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/p...-tool.html

While your i7 is basically quad-core with HTT, it will never be nearly as fast as 2 real, physical quad-cores together. Specially if they are called Xeon and if they are more than quad-cores... Smile

This could be fun, but the price is ... nice.

Here, HP will explain why Workstation...

http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaign...tions.html

Oh, and real professionals use nVidia Quadro, or Tesla.

Tongue

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