'Building sentient beings, rather than breeding sentient beings.' Why?
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29-01-2014, 08:19 AM
RE: 'Building sentient beings, rather than breeding sentient beings.' Why?
In terms of the subject of the OP 'Building sentient beings, rather than breeding sentient beings.' Why?', there is a whole field of science devoted to this pursuit. A large part of new A.I. and the field of Artificial Life involves using genetic algorithms to breed computer programs and brains for robots.

Progress in Good Old Fashioned Artificial Intelligence (GOFAI for short) hit a wall because robots and programs developed in a lab did not work in the noisy real world. So instead, robots were embodied and evolved in the real world. Although further progress was made, it was not a silver bullet.

Mechanical movement is several orders of magnitude slower than running in simulation. Programming a simulated environment in which evolution can take place requires time and effort. Very often after you have run your processes for weeks you find that your agents have evolved to a specific aspect of your simulated environment not present in the real world. Or you find that you have to start the whole evolutionary run again because of a bug in your code or your agents got stuck in an evolutionary dead-end.

Ultimately what it really comes down to is a lack of processing power. I am evolving agent controllers now that I would never have had a hope of evolving when I started doing this 17 years ago, but they still do incredibly simple things that we all take for granted.
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30-01-2014, 05:34 AM
RE: 'Building sentient beings, rather than breeding sentient beings.' Why?
(21-01-2014 11:33 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  People have been building and working towards sentient machines for the last hundred years. They want to build a human like being.

Humans have been breeding animals, and evolving animals for thousands of years.

Why didn't humans, in any part of the world, breed animals for pure intelligence? Whether for a purpose or for just out right curiosity. Breed animals so that they're eerily in-tune with people, and could spell sentences out, and do most human activities. To breed out instincts that take over the animals body/psychology, which makes them dangerous and irrational.

Because it's not possible.
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30-01-2014, 08:24 AM
RE: 'Building sentient beings, rather than breeding sentient beings.' Why?
(30-01-2014 05:34 AM)Juv Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 11:33 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  People have been building and working towards sentient machines for the last hundred years. They want to build a human like being.

Humans have been breeding animals, and evolving animals for thousands of years.

Why didn't humans, in any part of the world, breed animals for pure intelligence? Whether for a purpose or for just out right curiosity. Breed animals so that they're eerily in-tune with people, and could spell sentences out, and do most human activities. To breed out instincts that take over the animals body/psychology, which makes them dangerous and irrational.

Because it's not possible.

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30-01-2014, 08:35 AM
RE: 'Building sentient beings, rather than breeding sentient beings.' Why?
It is possible IMO, but only extremely targeted to the specific type of animal and task. I doubt it is possible for a full spectrum of functions.

And this is why animal breeding programs have focused on things that compliment human intelligence instead of replacing it. They take a skill in which the animal is naturally superior to us, and further fine tune it through targeted breeding.

Police dogs, for instance, are better at recognizing "intent" than humans. Intent meaning the motive of a human being. Is this person thinking about fleeing, fighting, lying, helping, etc. etc. Some of these dogs are so proficient in this that an uneducated onlooker will swear the dog reads thoughts. Not so of course, but these dogs are infinitely better at reading body language, even the tiniest movement or facial expression, as well as literally smell impending actions as our bodies release different chemicals (this is also why dogs for instance can help deal with impending seizures in afflicted humans). And we likely don't even know all the things these dogs employ to form their judgments.

In the case of the police dog, the dog is already more proficient than us in finding the suspect, subduing the suspect without killing them, guarding the suspect so s/he cannot flee or attack etc, and delivering the suspect into custody. No human or robot can match these skills, it takes a sentient being with many attributes that humans do not possess.

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01-02-2014, 10:20 PM
RE: 'Building sentient beings, rather than breeding sentient beings.' Why?
(21-01-2014 11:53 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(21-01-2014 11:33 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  Why didn't humans, in any part of the world, breed animals for pure intelligence?

We DO. It's called NEWFIES.

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06-02-2014, 12:22 AM
RE: 'Building sentient beings, rather than breeding sentient beings.' Why?
(21-01-2014 11:33 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  Why didn't humans, in any part of the world, breed animals for pure intelligence? Whether for a purpose or for just out right curiosity. Breed animals so that they're eerily in-tune with people, and could spell sentences out, and do most human activities. To breed out instincts that take over the animals body/psychology, which makes them dangerous and irrational.

To a degree, we've been working on it with certain dog breeds - newfies already presented, and border collies.

But for most of human history, no-one considered animals to be even capable of being bred for such purposes, so it probably never occurred to anyone. I wonder how long it would take to breed parrots with human level intelligence. Many species already use tools, have some reasoning capability, and can be trained to mimic human language, so they seem like a natural for such a breeding program.

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06-02-2014, 03:28 AM
RE: 'Building sentient beings, rather than breeding sentient beings.' Why?
(06-02-2014 12:22 AM)toadaly Wrote:  I wonder how long it would take to breed parrots with human level intelligence. Many species already use tools, have some reasoning capability, and can be trained to mimic human language, so they seem like a natural for such a breeding program.

Parrots can't ever have large enough brains to have human level intelligence. If they did they'd be a huge head with a bunch of feathers and feet sticking out of one side.
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06-02-2014, 05:58 AM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2014 06:04 AM by Dom.)
RE: 'Building sentient beings, rather than breeding sentient beings.' Why?
(06-02-2014 03:28 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(06-02-2014 12:22 AM)toadaly Wrote:  I wonder how long it would take to breed parrots with human level intelligence. Many species already use tools, have some reasoning capability, and can be trained to mimic human language, so they seem like a natural for such a breeding program.

Parrots can't ever have large enough brains to have human level intelligence. If they did they'd be a huge head with a bunch of feathers and feet sticking out of one side.

Parrots have the intelligence level of 3 year old humans. Alex the African Grey had a huge vocabulary and knew what words meant and routinely passed intelligence tests made for human children.

You would have to train a pair from birth on, several hours every day, and do the same with their offspring and their offspring etc, and eventually you will get some that learn to talk the same way humans do, but a lot earlier in life. Speech seems to be the key for them as they can and do understand that words mean things and they can mimic them nicely.The larger parrots, if kept well, have the same life span as humans.

Unfortunately, most parrots in captivity today are not kept appropriately, parrots are omnivores and whither away on a seed diet, and people do not teach them to speak but just to mimic sounds. It's a miracle any of them use any words appropriately. Birds like Alex who are taken seriously and taught to communicate instead of mimicking have a huge capacity for learning.

If you have any parrot questions, I used to breed and raise them, I had a huge facility. One of the more fun businesses I had, a lot of work but parrots are just fascinating. At first I just fell in love with their beauty, but then I was is awe of their intelligence. It is not just rote learning either, they can create concepts as well.

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06-02-2014, 06:04 AM
RE: 'Building sentient beings, rather than breeding sentient beings.' Why?
I have 15yr old border collie , Australian kelpie cross. Did zero training with her. But her intelligence is off the chart, pure genetic fine tuning. Hates water but will swim out the ocean and tow you back to shore if you wave the leg strap in the air and call her. (Was never intentionally trained to do this).

I think we will only get true AI if we breed software rather then build it.

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06-02-2014, 09:01 AM
RE: 'Building sentient beings, rather than breeding sentient beings.' Why?
(21-01-2014 11:33 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  People have been building and working towards sentient machines for the last hundred years. They want to build a human like being.

Humans have been breeding animals, and evolving animals for thousands of years.

Why didn't humans, in any part of the world, breed animals for pure intelligence? Whether for a purpose or for just out right curiosity. Breed animals so that they're eerily in-tune with people, and could spell sentences out, and do most human activities. To breed out instincts that take over the animals body/psychology, which makes them dangerous and irrational.

Because of the construction differences between human biology and animal biology.
This is for most species of animals or non humans... their brain isn't designed/evolved to have the vital parts of the brain that allow them to learn these things. Sadly, evolution hasn't come out with something that intelligent yet. Anyways, if we did breed a species like that, they would ask why they were forced to serve as our eternal companions.

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