Building the starship USS Enterprise
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23-08-2012, 01:07 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(23-08-2012 12:31 AM)morondog Wrote:  The ship is not useless once it ceases to be hypothetical.

The cost of making that happen is too high.

The professional engineers thing - wow, way cool.

Say someone gave you 50 billion, is it more responsible to:
a. chase a pipe dream?
b. fix some of the shit wrong with our own planet, which will affect a hell of a lot more people. Hey it might even result in enough prosperity that you'll get your starship too, eventually.

Chasing the pipe dream may be the solution to everyones problem. The governments of the world can be as corrupt as they want and even use the suffering of the poor to thrive, as long as one cannot make the statement "Well, I'll just go live on Mars." and have it be a true statement. Our self serving politicians are the very reasons the economy is failing so epicly. In third world nations, the ruling class steps on the poor. Making space travel for everyone a reality is the one way to end the fishbowl cenario.
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23-08-2012, 01:42 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
Thank you Birdy for continuing my fight after I gave up...

Thank you LJ for supporting me, but I ain't no Eminem, I had a little inspiration, but the fact is I am terrible with lyrics, so I can't win this. My logic wins more important things for me. Smile

You know what I think? I think we never needed to bother with no space exploration. Why do we need any space shit? We should never invented NASA, fuck all this space junk. All those rockets... So much money, and on top of that, it is all Nazi technology, so it is all tainted with evil. Imagine how much money we would have if we never build any rockets, if no one ever went anywhere... It would be a haven on Earth...

Wait, then we wouldn't have satellites and communications. Oh shit. Ah well, at least there would be heaven on Earth, without technology.

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23-08-2012, 02:28 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(23-08-2012 01:42 AM)Filox Wrote:  Thank you Birdy for continuing my fight after I gave up...

Thank you LJ for supporting me, but I ain't no Eminem, I had a little inspiration, but the fact is I am terrible with lyrics, so I can't win this. My logic wins more important things for me. Smile

You know what I think? I think we never needed to bother with no space exploration. Why do we need any space shit? We should never invented NASA, fuck all this space junk. All those rockets... So much money, and on top of that, it is all Nazi technology, so it is all tainted with evil. Imagine how much money we would have if we never build any rockets, if no one ever went anywhere... It would be a haven on Earth...

Wait, then we wouldn't have satellites and communications. Oh shit. Ah well, at least there would be heaven on Earth, without technology.

NASA restrict themselves to achievable goals.

What you guys are advocating is that cavemen should go straight from hunter gatherer economy to the industrial revolution because "it's within our technological grasp if we commit our resources to it".
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23-08-2012, 02:34 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(23-08-2012 02:28 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(23-08-2012 01:42 AM)Filox Wrote:  Thank you Birdy for continuing my fight after I gave up...

Thank you LJ for supporting me, but I ain't no Eminem, I had a little inspiration, but the fact is I am terrible with lyrics, so I can't win this. My logic wins more important things for me. Smile

You know what I think? I think we never needed to bother with no space exploration. Why do we need any space shit? We should never invented NASA, fuck all this space junk. All those rockets... So much money, and on top of that, it is all Nazi technology, so it is all tainted with evil. Imagine how much money we would have if we never build any rockets, if no one ever went anywhere... It would be a haven on Earth...

Wait, then we wouldn't have satellites and communications. Oh shit. Ah well, at least there would be heaven on Earth, without technology.

NASA restrict themselves to achievable goals.

What you guys are advocating is that cavemen should go straight from hunter gatherer economy to the industrial revolution because "it's within our technological grasp if we commit our resources to it".

Yes, yes I am.
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23-08-2012, 02:44 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(23-08-2012 02:28 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(23-08-2012 01:42 AM)Filox Wrote:  Thank you Birdy for continuing my fight after I gave up...

Thank you LJ for supporting me, but I ain't no Eminem, I had a little inspiration, but the fact is I am terrible with lyrics, so I can't win this. My logic wins more important things for me. Smile

You know what I think? I think we never needed to bother with no space exploration. Why do we need any space shit? We should never invented NASA, fuck all this space junk. All those rockets... So much money, and on top of that, it is all Nazi technology, so it is all tainted with evil. Imagine how much money we would have if we never build any rockets, if no one ever went anywhere... It would be a haven on Earth...

Wait, then we wouldn't have satellites and communications. Oh shit. Ah well, at least there would be heaven on Earth, without technology.

NASA restrict themselves to achievable goals.

What you guys are advocating is that cavemen should go straight from hunter gatherer economy to the industrial revolution because "it's within our technological grasp if we commit our resources to it".

But the caveman did not know about industrial revolution and they did not have the technology for it. We have all the technology and knowledge. Sure we need money, but every research requires money, research is needed for advancement and sometimes you need "a leap of faith" with tons of money to make some ground breaking new advancement. Every new big thing is a risk and costs money. If we are to observe things in a way: "we can cure cancer with that money" than nothing new would be invented. Except the cure for cancer. MAYBE. Or maybe we would just spend all the money on the cure that will never exist?

I have a feeling that if they didn't use USS Enterprise, but some random spaceship design, that much more people would be willing to hear out the idea. This way some of you just think this is a wishful thinking of some retarded trekkie... Too bad.

P.S.

morondog, you say NASA commits it's research only to achievable goals. But this IS achievable goal. All one needs is money. As any other NASA research needs money.

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23-08-2012, 02:55 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
Quote:*facepalm* Useless implies there is no use.

Are you fucking kidding me?
It's like a fucking disease on this forum. So much nit picking it's unbelievable.
You can't give an example these days without everyone thinking it to literally be the point of your argument. You can't say 'this' 'that' or 'the other' without someone posting about how we can't really know anything for 100% sure.
Can't people just take a fucking seat and drink a cup of fucking common sense, I hear Wal Mart are having a 2-for-1 special on.
99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999^infinity% chance is fucking close to 100%, so close in fact it's not worth noting that 0.0000000whater1% chance it's not the case. Yet people must bring up that 0.000000whatever1 like it fucking matters.
God damn, have a bit of common sense. Just say 100%.

Like this for example, you know damn fucking well what I mean when I say it's useless, stop being so fucking grandpa nit picky about it, drive down to the wal mart and buy that 2-for-1 special on common sense and drink both.

(23-08-2012 01:07 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(23-08-2012 12:31 AM)morondog Wrote:  The ship is not useless once it ceases to be hypothetical.

The cost of making that happen is too high.

The professional engineers thing - wow, way cool.

Say someone gave you 50 billion, is it more responsible to:
a. chase a pipe dream?
b. fix some of the shit wrong with our own planet, which will affect a hell of a lot more people. Hey it might even result in enough prosperity that you'll get your starship too, eventually.

Chasing the pipe dream may be the solution to everyones problem. The governments of the world can be as corrupt as they want and even use the suffering of the poor to thrive, as long as one cannot make the statement "Well, I'll just go live on Mars." and have it be a true statement. Our self serving politicians are the very reasons the economy is failing so epicly. In third world nations, the ruling class steps on the poor. Making space travel for everyone a reality is the one way to end the fishbowl cenario.

As for you, do you read nothing I post??
Are you even reading this, I could be posting fucking anything right now it makes no difference, and it certainly doesn't process in that brain of yours. I should just stop wasting my time and copy and paste something long so it makes it look like I typed something long and wordy because obviously that is all it is to you, something long and wordy, tl;dr. Once upon a time, there was a little girl named Goldilocks. She went for a walk in the forest. Pretty soon, she came upon a house. She knocked and, when no one answered, she walked right in.
At the table in the kitchen, there were three bowls of porridge. Goldilocks was hungry. She tasted the porridge from the first bowl.
"This porridge is too hot!" she exclaimed.
So, she tasted the porridge from the second bowl.
"This porridge is too cold," she said
So, she tasted the last bowl of porridge.
"Ahhh, this porridge is just right," she said happily and she ate it all up.
After she'd eaten the three bears' breakfasts she decided she was feeling a little tired. So, she walked into the living room where she saw three chairs. Goldilocks sat in the first chair to rest her feet.
"This chair is too big!" she exclaimed.
So she sat in the second chair.
"This chair is too big, too!" she whined.
So she tried the last and smallest chair.
"Ahhh, this chair is just right," she sighed. But just as she settled down into the chair to rest, it broke into pieces!
Goldilocks was very tired by this time, so she went upstairs to the bedroom. She lay down in the first bed, but it was too hard. Then she lay in the second bed, but it was too soft. Then she lay down in the third bed and it was just right. Goldilocks fell asleep.
As she was sleeping, the three bears came home.
"Someone's been eating my porridge," growled the Papa bear.
"Someone's been eating my porridge," said the Mama bear.
"Someone's been eating my porridge and they ate it all up!" cried the Baby bear.
"Someone's been sitting in my chair," growled the Papa bear.
"Someone's been sitting in my chair," said the Mama bear.
"Someone's been sitting in my chair and they've broken it all to pieces," cried the Baby bear.
They decided to look around some more and when they got upstairs to the bedroom, Papa bear growled, "Someone's been sleeping in my bed,"
"Someone's been sleeping in my bed, too" said the Mama bear
"Someone's been sleeping in my bed and she's still there!" exclaimed Baby bear.
Just then, Goldilocks woke up and saw the three bears. She screamed, "Help!" And she jumped up and ran out of the room. Goldilocks ran down the stairs, opened the door, and ran away into the forest. And she never returned to the home of the three bears.
There we go, that will work just at about the same effective levels as anything else I seem to post in this fucking thread.

Quote:You know what I think? I think we never needed to bother with no space exploration. Why do we need any space shit? We should never invented NASA, fuck all this space junk. All those rockets... So much money, and on top of that, it is all Nazi technology, so it is all tainted with evil. Imagine how much money we would have if we never build any rockets, if no one ever went anywhere... It would be a haven on Earth...

Wait, then we wouldn't have satellites and communications. Oh shit. Ah well, at least there would be heaven on Earth, without technology.

I was waiting for you to post.
I think you need to talk to Logica, she's getting a cup of common sense from Wal-Mart who are having a 2-for-1 special on at the moment, she may give you her free one.

Look, I'm gonna break this down for you piece by piece so you may finally understand what I am saying because at the moment Morondog is the only one that actually fucking gets what I'm saying.

I will type slow so you people may understand.

You people want to build the Enterprise. A Star Trek spaceship. A Si-Fi fictional ship.
I asked what for. You said, "to fly around in and it'll be totally cool and have neat flashing lights and stuff!"
I said, no but seriously? You said, "seriously, to fly around in with neat flashing lights and stuff".
I sighed and asked how much it would cost. You said, "$1trillion dollars".
I asked that isn't a trillion dollars a little much, is there not more important things we could be spending that money on? To which you responded, "what could possibly be more important then flying around in a totally neat spaceship, oh and did we mention it'll have cool flashing lights and stuff?"
I then proposed that perhaps that money could be better spent on earth feeding the poor to which you respond, "capitalism is bad, all people in power are evil and do nothing all day but rape, murder and kill. It's a proven fact that if you earn over $80,000 a year that you are evil and need to be killed. Oh something about feeding the poor being a bad idea because NASA is the only organization that matters. Forget other scientific fields, forget research into disease's, forget feeding the poor, forget technology developments outside of NASA (pretty much 99% of technology developments) forget alllll of that because the only thing of any value to humans is to build this space ship with working flashing lights to fly around in".
To which I asked, well what were the gains if this is so important to which you responded "ummm... It'll bring world utopia!!!! Yeah that's it! it'll bring down "the man" and all people who earn over $80,000 a year will be killed and there will be no more boarders and everyone will frolic around in fields of long green grass and rainbows and fairies and unicorns and pigs will fly and nobody would ever die and there would be never ending ice cream!!!!!!! because everyone will rally behind this project and everyone will stop to work on the totally awesome spaceship because it has real working flashing lights and will be so cool to zoom around in!!"
To which I said, ummm, no it wont. The international space station was a international project yet the world is still fucked up. There has been many joint country ventures and yet nothing has changed between the two countries. Like ww2 for example, allies working together to defeat Nazi Germany, yet today America is still America, the Uk is still the Uk and France is still France.
So what benefits does this produce I asked, if not create this fantasy 'utopia'. To which nobody could respond and there was a rap battle and shit finally died.
Then you guys finally thought of something and responded with "to colonize other worlds so man kind doesn't die".
To which I responded that the only viable option to colonize is Mars which in itself is extremely dangerous planet. Anything we face on earth, crazy weather, global warming, meteor, we would still have a better chance on Earth. So no planet was a viable option in our galaxy making this point moot.
To which you responded "hello, other galaxies"
To which I responded, "hello, the closest is over 20,000years away and has no guarantee of a suitable planet". Plus, I might add now, that even if that was a good idea, it still wouldn't justify that kind of money. The money would be spent for the benefit of only a small fraction of the population and no benefit would be seen on Earth. Like with taxes, taxes pay for health, you may not use it but it benefits society on a whole which in turn benefits you.
To which you started a hate rant about how wasted money has been spent on war and shit and corporations are bad and politicians are out to kill everybody and rape children and shit. To which I am now responding that you people are fucking stupid.

Here's the arguments in a nice little list with my refutes.
And this is the last long post I make, anything after this will just be to insult your brain capacity. At least until new arguments come up.

$1 trillion to fly around space.
- Nearest galaxy 20,000 years away (at least) with extremely little chance of an inhabitable planet and a dying star.
- We can view space with telescopes like the Hubble. (other options)
It will rally countries and create utopia on Earth
- No it wont.
- International space station never rallied countries and made Utopia on earth.
- WW1, WW2, countries that fought side by side, both shed blood in same fox hole. That never created Utopia on earth even between those countries.
- Lol
- We know, you hate capitalism
Colonize Mars
- why?
Save Man Kind
- Man has a far better chance on Earth.
- Mars has no water and next to no oxygen.
- Mars has no magnetic field (well, very little)
- Mars doesn't have a large moon to help defend against meteors
Population control
- The world's current population is over 6billion. 6 BILLION!
- Not doable, could never get a sizable chunk of that population on to Mars
- Worlds population wont get bigger then 10billion (confused? obviously didn't watch that TED video)
"What do you suggest, wait until the Earth is dying?"
- A dying earth is still better then a dead Mars
- A dying earth still has water
- A dying Earth still has oxygen

- The idea of colonizing Mars in itself is an idea that moots the Enterprise idea anyway. It could be achieved much cheaper the building the Enterprise, not to mention more specialized 'shuttle like' spaceships would be required. Building the Enterprise at $1trillion to colonies Mars is like building a Ferrari Enzo to tow around building bricks.

Exploration
- Can be done cheaper and safer by robots and telescopes
The money is justified because NASA gave us Velcro
- No NASA didn't that's a myth.
- The idea of this argument is that you guys put it across that it was like anything worth while had to be space related. "NASA is the only thing to contribute anything worthwhile to man kind" argument. This is where feeding the poor came into. This is the biggy argument. Because what I am saying is not "feed the poor", what I'm saying is that there is many things that would better benefit man kind then this.
Cancer research, hospital upgrades etc.. heaps of things. Infrastructure. Lots of things that would benefit man kind. I accept that astronomy is important, I mean I personally love it. BUT it isn't the most important thing to man kind. There is biology for example. I hate biology but it's important, just like infrastructure is important or hospital's are important.
This doesn't offer anything remotely valuable to man kind and hence is no where near worth the $1 trillion when that money could be better spent elsewhere.

- "But feeding the poor would never happen" it's got a better chance of happening then this happening. If a trillion dollars could be raised for this useless waste of space then a trillion dollars could be raised to feed the poor, that argument fails.

All you people see is "totally awesome spaceship with real working flashing lights!!!" and don't see how little, if anything, it has to offer and what a complete waste of money it is.

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23-08-2012, 02:58 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(23-08-2012 01:42 AM)Filox Wrote:  Thank you Birdy for continuing my fight after I gave up...

Thank you LJ for supporting me, but I ain't no Eminem, I had a little inspiration, but the fact is I am terrible with lyrics, so I can't win this. My logic wins more important things for me. Smile

You know what I think? I think we never needed to bother with no space exploration. Why do we need any space shit? We should never invented NASA, fuck all this space junk. All those rockets... So much money, and on top of that, it is all Nazi technology, so it is all tainted with evil. Imagine how much money we would have if we never build any rockets, if no one ever went anywhere... It would be a haven on Earth...

Wait, then we wouldn't have satellites and communications. Oh shit. Ah well, at least there would be heaven on Earth, without technology.

Also I think you will find that man didn't need to fly to the moon in order to launch satellites into orbit.

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23-08-2012, 03:50 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
So you do not think that a nuclear powered spaceship will have some impact on space travel?

Or the new ion-propulsion engines?

Or the 100MW (or howmuch, nevermind) laser is completely unnecessary to explore?

Long space exploration useless?

Artificial gravity?

Yeah, you do make a point, it is pretty stupid to even think about going to space in the next few hundreds of years. who needs that shit anyway, we are good here, where we are.

You know what, I think that our modern computers are more than strong enough. I think we should stop developing new computers, stick to what we have now and use that money for something better. Irrigation for example. And iPhones, iPhone 4 is more than enough, all the money used to develop iPhone 5 should be diverted into AIDS research.

earmuffs, please, do not write these long, long posts, you will not be able to change my mind, because I have different views on these kind of things and my mind works in mysterious ways. I understand what you are saying, but I never said that the ship is cool because it has flashy lights, except if I were joking. I think that we need something like this, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but one day we will start making something like this. It is pretty inevitable. It is the continuation of our space exploration and you are blind for not seeing it. This will happen, only maybe it won't look as Enterprise, but I would like it to look like that. The looks make no difference in economical problems, technical specs and all other stuff. You think this is all BS. Fine. Agree to disagree.

Tongue

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23-08-2012, 05:28 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(23-08-2012 03:50 AM)Filox Wrote:  So you do not think that a nuclear powered spaceship will have some impact on space travel?

Or the new ion-propulsion engines?

Or the 100MW (or howmuch, nevermind) laser is completely unnecessary to explore?

Long space exploration useless?

Artificial gravity?

Yeah, you do make a point, it is pretty stupid to even think about going to space in the next few hundreds of years. who needs that shit anyway, we are good here, where we are.

You know what, I think that our modern computers are more than strong enough. I think we should stop developing new computers, stick to what we have now and use that money for something better. Irrigation for example. And iPhones, iPhone 4 is more than enough, all the money used to develop iPhone 5 should be diverted into AIDS research.

earmuffs, please, do not write these long, long posts, you will not be able to change my mind, because I have different views on these kind of things and my mind works in mysterious ways. I understand what you are saying, but I never said that the ship is cool because it has flashy lights, except if I were joking. I think that we need something like this, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but one day we will start making something like this. It is pretty inevitable. It is the continuation of our space exploration and you are blind for not seeing it. This will happen, only maybe it won't look as Enterprise, but I would like it to look like that. The looks make no difference in economical problems, technical specs and all other stuff. You think this is all BS. Fine. Agree to disagree.

Tongue

You say you get what I'm saying but you clearly don't.

And again with shit that I think all research into anything other then feeding the fucking poor or AIDS or whatever the fuck is useless. I do not and never said that we should stop things like developing the next iphone or an alternative to petrol driven engine or whatever the fuck.
You DO NOT understand what I am saying because you're a closed minded fuckwit and can't see past the literal meanings of my words.
How many times do I need to spell this out for you people. I do not think THIS,
[Image: 64lzzm.jpg]
is a good idea.
I am not saying don't invest in NASA, or don't invest in fusion energy or whatever the fuck. I am saying don't invest in THIS!
God you people are worst then theists.
This is a horrible fucking idea, you people are fucking morons for thinking it's a good idea, end of thread.

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23-08-2012, 05:32 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
It's like you can only refute everything everyone has said, presented your own better ideas all the while people taking all your words out of context before you just crack and resort to verbal insult out of pure frustration because of the level of stupid on their part.
I might as well be arguing with a miss america.

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