Building the starship USS Enterprise
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23-08-2012, 05:49 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
Big Grin

What you fail to understand is the definition of a debate. I DO get what you are saying, I just see more possibilities in this spaceship than you. I see it as a start of something that will become beneficial in a long run, maybe a very long run.

You don't. Or you didn't think a lot in to the future.

And it is OK. We do not have to agree on anything, just because we are both atheists and we have a few other things in common.

I feel your frustration, feel free to go berserk, I simply can not get mad. Only a person of higher intellect could possibly offend me and I am yet to meet that person.

Big Grin

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23-08-2012, 06:13 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
Quote:What you fail to understand is the definition of a debate. I DO get what you are saying, I just see more possibilities in this spaceship than you. I see it as a start of something that will become beneficial in a long run, maybe a very long run.

There are none, none worth the $trillion it'd cost.
No benefits of this piece of shit can possible justified.

You can't just compare having this to not having this, it doesn't work that way.
You compare having this to what you could have INSTEAD of this.
That is the simplest best I can explain this to you.

So sure, maybe (highly doubtful) all this great shit would come of this, we develop some super duper hyperdrive thing. But the question is not, "well without the Enterprise we wouldn't have this" the question is "what could we have achieved if the resources required to acquire that, were used elsewhere."
This is where your argument falls apart, because nothing that could come out of this, are worth the resources.

And no you really don't.

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23-08-2012, 07:14 AM (This post was last modified: 23-08-2012 07:33 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:*facepalm* Useless implies there is no use.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Because your analogy was hypocritical and useless? If throwing money at a problem worked, our economy would be fixed and all the third world countries would be fed.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  You know what I think? I think we never needed to bother with no space exploration. Why do we need any space shit? We should never invented NASA, fuck all this space junk. All those rockets... So much money, and on top of that, it is all Nazi technology, so it is all tainted with evil. Imagine how much money we would have if we never build any rockets, if no one ever went anywhere... It would be a haven on Earth...

Sounds to me like someone is letting the kooky side out.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Wait, then we wouldn't have satellites and communications. Oh shit. Ah well, at least there would be heaven on Earth, without technology.

You are far too emotionally invested in this argument.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I was waiting for you to post.
I think you need to talk to Logica, she's getting a cup of common sense from Wal-Mart who are having a 2-for-1 special on at the moment, she may give you her free one.

I am a guy, no need to get upset.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Look, I'm gonna break this down for you piece by piece so you may finally understand what I am saying because at the moment Morondog is the only one that actually fucking gets what I'm saying.

I will type slow so you people may understand.

The speed in which you type does not convey a point any better.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  You people want to build the Enterprise. A Star Trek spaceship. A Si-Fi fictional ship.

It is not the literal ship for fuck's sake.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I asked what for. You said, "to fly around in and it'll be totally cool and have neat flashing lights and stuff!"
I said, no but seriously? You said, "seriously, to fly around in with neat flashing lights and stuff".

I don't know if you even read what I said.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I sighed and asked how much it would cost. You said, "$1trillion dollars".
I asked that isn't a trillion dollars a little much, is there not more important things we could be spending that money on? To which you responded, "what could possibly be more important then flying around in a totally neat spaceship, oh and did we mention it'll have cool flashing lights and stuff?"

A trillion dollars is a little much when you maintain sustained space travel? You reach Mars in twenty days? Damn, you are right.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I then proposed that perhaps that money could be better spent on earth feeding the poor to which you respond, "capitalism is bad, all people in power are evil and do nothing all day but rape, murder and kill. It's a proven fact that if you earn over $80,000 a year that you are evil and need to be killed. Oh something about feeding the poor being a bad idea because NASA is the only organization that matters. Forget other scientific fields, forget research into disease's, forget feeding the poor, forget technology developments outside of NASA (pretty much 99% of technology developments) forget alllll of that because the only thing of any value to humans is to build this space ship with working flashing lights to fly around in".

To which I say, countries have been throwing money down there for years, and nothing has happened.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  To which I asked, well what were the gains if this is so important to which you responded "ummm... It'll bring world utopia!!!! Yeah that's it! it'll bring down "the man" and all people who earn over $80,000 a year will be killed and there will be no more boarders and everyone will frolic around in fields of long green grass and rainbows and fairies and unicorns and pigs will fly and nobody would ever die and there would be never ending ice cream!!!!!!! because everyone will rally behind this project and everyone will stop to work on the totally awesome spaceship because it has real working flashing lights and will be so cool to zoom around in!!"
To which I said, ummm, no it wont. The international space station was a international project yet the world is still fucked up. There has been many joint country ventures and yet nothing has changed between the two countries. Like ww2 for example, allies working together to defeat Nazi Germany, yet today America is still America, the Uk is still the Uk and France is still France.
So what benefits does this produce I asked, if not create this fantasy 'utopia'. To which nobody could respond and there was a rap battle and shit finally died.
Then you guys finally thought of something and responded with "to colonize other worlds so man kind doesn't die".
To which I responded that the only viable option to colonize is Mars which in itself is extremely dangerous planet. Anything we face on earth, crazy weather, global warming, meteor, we would still have a better chance on Earth. So no planet was a viable option in our galaxy making this point moot.
To which you responded "hello, other galaxies"
To which I responded, "hello, the closest is over 20,000years away and has no guarantee of a suitable planet". Plus, I might add now, that even if that was a good idea, it still wouldn't justify that kind of money. The money would be spent for the benefit of only a small fraction of the population and no benefit would be seen on Earth. Like with taxes, taxes pay for health, you may not use it but it benefits society on a whole which in turn benefits you.
To which you started a hate rant about how wasted money has been spent on war and shit and corporations are bad and politicians are out to kill everybody and rape children and shit. To which I am now responding that you people are fucking stupid.

I am sorry, but this wall of text is not worth reading.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Here's the arguments in a nice little list with my refutes.
And this is the last long post I make, anything after this will just be to insult your brain capacity. At least until new arguments come up.

This isn't about refuting, this is about your inability to click on the links I provided you.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  $1 trillion to fly around space.
- Nearest galaxy 20,000 years away (at least) with extremely little chance of an inhabitable planet and a dying star.
- We can view space with telescopes like the Hubble. (other options)

Your point is?

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  It will rally countries and create utopia on Earth
- No it wont.
- International space station never rallied countries and made Utopia on earth.
- WW1, WW2, countries that fought side by side, both shed blood in same fox hole. That never created Utopia on earth even between those countries.
- Lol
- We know, you hate capitalism

Since these events took place, the world has become more unified than ever.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Colonize Mars
- why?
Save Man Kind
- Man has a far better chance on Earth.
- Mars has no water and next to no oxygen.
- Mars has no magnetic field (well, very little)
- Mars doesn't have a large moon to help defend against meteors

Or simply setting up research stations and analyzing the Martian planet with humans.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Population control
- The world's current population is over 6billion. 6 BILLION!
- Not doable, could never get a sizable chunk of that population on to Mars
- Worlds population wont get bigger then 10billion (confused? obviously didn't watch that TED video)

The current population is actually 7 billion. No, you won't get a sizable chunk in one trip.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  "What do you suggest, wait until the Earth is dying?"
- A dying earth is still better then a dead Mars
- A dying earth still has water
- A dying Earth still has oxygen

Mars still has water. Mars will have oxygen if we thicken the atmosphere and release it from the rocks.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  - The idea of colonizing Mars in itself is an idea that moots the Enterprise idea anyway. It could be achieved much cheaper the building the Enterprise, not to mention more specialized 'shuttle like' spaceships would be required. Building the Enterprise at $1trillion to colonies Mars is like building a Ferrari Enzo to tow around building bricks.

So how much do you propose a vehicle that can carry tens of thousands of crew members, travel faster than any rocket, and have cool lights would cost?

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Exploration
- Can be done cheaper and safer by robots and telescopes

You can only rely on unmanned exploration for so long.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  The money is justified because NASA gave us Velcro
- No NASA didn't that's a myth.
- The idea of this argument is that you guys put it across that it was like anything worth while had to be space related. "NASA is the only thing to contribute anything worthwhile to man kind" argument. This is where feeding the poor came into. This is the biggy argument. Because what I am saying is not "feed the poor", what I'm saying is that there is many things that would better benefit man kind then this.
Cancer research, hospital upgrades etc.. heaps of things. Infrastructure. Lots of things that would benefit man kind. I accept that astronomy is important, I mean I personally love it. BUT it isn't the most important thing to man kind. There is biology for example. I hate biology but it's important, just like infrastructure is important or hospital's are important.
This doesn't offer anything remotely valuable to man kind and hence is no where near worth the $1 trillion when that money could be better spent elsewhere.

You seriously need a chill pill.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  - "But feeding the poor would never happen" it's got a better chance of happening then this happening. If a trillion dollars could be raised for this useless waste of space then a trillion dollars could be raised to feed the poor, that argument fails.

As I said, throwing money at a third world country does not help. If it did, they would already be successful.

(23-08-2012 02:55 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  All you people see is "totally awesome spaceship with real working flashing lights!!!" and don't see how little, if anything, it has to offer and what a complete waste of money it is.

You seriously did not click on any of the links I provided you. Eh, no harm done. You look a little crazy right now, but no harm done. You are even assuming that this is a possibility, and taking it too seriously.

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23-08-2012, 07:45 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
Quote:Sounds to me like someone is letting the kooky side out.

You just quoted Filox.

Quote:You are far too emotionally invested in this argument.

You just quoted Filox again.

Quote:Not only am I a guy, but I think you need a cup of Shut the Fuck Up.

Sorry thought you were female for some reason, probably because of the pink avatar.
And no thanks, I only drink coke.

Quote:I know you are probably technically illiterate, but the speed in which you type does not convey a point any better.

Failing yet again to actually interpret what I am saying.

Quote:I don't know if you even read what I said.

You obviously fail to read anything that I am saying or
a) You wouldn't have just said that as you would be aware that that was about you people (those for this project) and if you continued reading rather then quoting and commenting to my post as you read it you would see that that bit in particular was in reference to the start of the thread.
b) Well actually there's no b that's it.

Quote:A trillion dollars is a little much when you maintain sustained space travel? You reach Mars in twenty days? Damn, you are right.

Of course I'm right, I'm always fucking right.
Except when I'm wrong, but in this case I'm not wrong.

Quote:To which I say, countries have been throwing money down there for years, and nothing has happened.

That makes no sense in relation to what you quoted.

Quote:I am sorry, but this wall of text is not worth reading.

neither is the current wall of text from you that I am reading right now.

Quote:This isn't about refuting, this is about your inability to click on the links I provided you.

Yea well the trololol video doesn't provide much information so...

Quote:Your point is?

God damn you are a fucking idiot.

Quote:Since these events took place, the world has become more unified than ever

[sarcasm]yes you're right, we're a real utopia...[/sarcasm]

Quote:Or simply setting up research stations and analyzing the Martian planet with humans.

Again, which doesn't require this shitty idea.

Quote:The current population is actually 7 billion. No, you won't get a sizable chunk in one trip.

Actually it's 6,973,738,433. Geez, get your facts straight.
And again, it's not about the number of trips it's about actually living on Mars.

Quote:Mars still has water. Mars will have oxygen if we thicken the atmosphere and release it from the rocks.

Mars may contain small amounts of perma-frost. As well as containing very very small amounts of water vapor in the atmosphere. Hardly enough to support 6,973,738,433 people.

Quote:So how much do you propose a vehicle that can carry tens of thousands of crew members, travel faster than any rocket, and have cool lights would cost?

Why?
Obviously I don't have exact figures, but it'd cost more then it's "benefit" that I can promise.

Quote:You can only rely on unmanned exploration for so long.

Sure, for ever.
Hell look, we got hi-def pictures from curiosity.

Also again, doesn't require the Enterprise.
Didn't take tens of thousands of people to land on the moon (like, take that literal step on the moon)

Quote:You seriously need a chill pill.

And you seriously need to go to Wal Mart before that sale expires.
Less worrying about me, more worrying about your shit argument.

Quote:As I said, throwing money at a third world country does not help. If it did, they would already be successful.

Fucking hell you're an asshole. How many times do I have to tell you, it's a fucking example. Jesus fucking Christ it's like talking to a lamp post.

Just go away, I'd rather talk to Filox and Bird, at least they contribute something even remotely worthwhile.

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23-08-2012, 08:08 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
Your emotional growth has quite obviously stunted at the age of 12, primarily because you were the first to use ad hominems here. I will continue to argue with you when you decide to grow up.

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23-08-2012, 08:11 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(23-08-2012 08:08 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Your emotional growth has quite obviously stunted at the age of 12, primarily because you were the first to use ad hominems here. I will continue to argue with you when you decide to grow up.

Yes and why did I snoop to 'ad hominems'?
Because I'm repeating the same shit over and over, and you people are saying the same shit I refuted here there and everywhere. Not to mention the complete lack of actually understanding what I'm saying and the whole thing was frustrating so I snooped to ad hominems. What's your point?

If anything, you being a stupid cunt was the cause of it.

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23-08-2012, 08:20 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(23-08-2012 08:11 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(23-08-2012 08:08 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Your emotional growth has quite obviously stunted at the age of 12, primarily because you were the first to use ad hominems here. I will continue to argue with you when you decide to grow up.

Yes and why did I snoop to 'ad hominems'?
Because I'm repeating the same shit over and over, and you people are saying the same shit I refuted here there and everywhere. Not to mention the complete lack of actually understanding what I'm saying and the whole thing was frustrating so I snooped to ad hominems. What's your point?

If anything, you being a stupid cunt was the cause of it.

Not only is that not a justification for an ad hominem, but shows just how much you have matured.
Again, you say the same thing over and over again, but it makes no point. I have told you why your propositions don't work, and you just keep saying those propositions. Good day to you, sir.

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23-08-2012, 08:25 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(23-08-2012 08:20 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(23-08-2012 08:11 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Yes and why did I snoop to 'ad hominems'?
Because I'm repeating the same shit over and over, and you people are saying the same shit I refuted here there and everywhere. Not to mention the complete lack of actually understanding what I'm saying and the whole thing was frustrating so I snooped to ad hominems. What's your point?

If anything, you being a stupid cunt was the cause of it.

Not only is that not a justification for an ad hominem, but shows just how much you have matured.
Again, you say the same thing over and over again, but it makes no point. I have told you why your propositions don't work, and you just keep saying those propositions. Good day to you, sir.

What a complete load of shit.
You have presented your 'arguments' for this and I have refuted every single one.
It's not my fault that you are such a stupid cunt that you can't interpret my words but rather read them literally.
Again, "feed the hungry" is a fucking example.

You have disproved NOTHING of mine that I have disproved of yours.

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23-08-2012, 08:30 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
You refuted absolutely nothing. I never implied building a fictional spaceship would solve any of the world's problems. I simply pointed out that throwing money at a problem is not always the fix.

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23-08-2012, 11:01 PM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(23-08-2012 06:13 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:What you fail to understand is the definition of a debate. I DO get what you are saying, I just see more possibilities in this spaceship than you. I see it as a start of something that will become beneficial in a long run, maybe a very long run.

There are none, none worth the $trillion it'd cost.
No benefits of this piece of shit can possible justified.

You can't just compare having this to not having this, it doesn't work that way.
You compare having this to what you could have INSTEAD of this.
That is the simplest best I can explain this to you.

So sure, maybe (highly doubtful) all this great shit would come of this, we develop some super duper hyperdrive thing. But the question is not, "well without the Enterprise we wouldn't have this" the question is "what could we have achieved if the resources required to acquire that, were used elsewhere."
This is where your argument falls apart, because nothing that could come out of this, are worth the resources.

And no you really don't.

You don't seem to get it. Humanity is all about aquiring wealth, nothing more. The rich keep getting richer and the way I see it dumping money on 3rd world countries to feed people in areas that are inhospitable to life is just a waste. Now, if we start building this thing and can put some money into building a structuire much like we would use on Mars or some other planet nearby to sustain life, those unfortunate people now find themselves being fed, and humanity as a whole can benefit from the findings. If we don't do something drastic like this the future of the middle and lower classes is bleak. As it is we waste so much money in the U.S. on people who don't have any interest in working. Imagine if we used that money on better things.
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