Building the starship USS Enterprise
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20-06-2012, 05:40 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(19-06-2012 09:36 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(19-06-2012 08:39 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  [Image: starving-children-africa.jpg]

Sort your own planet out first.

As for the idea in the video of "advance" and flight etc.. Flight actually has changed this world, flight allows faster travel, goods to be traveled etc.. all the benefits of flight.
Space travel offers none of that. It is extremely expensive and the only legit purpose is for scientific research which like I said can be done by robots. Not to mention what does gathering Mars space rock even provide to us here on earth? Yes it is interesting, I am very keen on all things space it is a great passion of mine, BUT it doesn't add anything other then knowledge. And that knowledge is not worth the money that is spent to obtain it.

I'm glad man walked on the moon I really am. That served as a military purpose more then anything, 'we're better then the soviets' (Even though the soviets were first to put a satellite in space and quite frankly that is the more important of the two accomplishments). But there is absolutely no justification to it now.

Please, justify to me why we should spend trillions of dollars colonizing Mars.

Easy. Science will advance astronomically (see what I did there?) and it's inevitable if our species is to continue evolving. There must be a way to leave this world and live somewhere else when the end to the planet as we know it comes. Migration has been a part of our evolution since at least Africa so you might say space exploration is inevitable.
I did see what you did there, clever, but still, so now real reason then?

The end of the planet is not for like 6billion years when our sun starts to shit bricks, and I am sure we will nuke ourselves into existence before then anyway.
We wont need, as in do or die, to leave this planet for hundreds of thousands of millions of shit loads of years. We don't need to leave today. We like to think we are advanced now, but if we wait 100years and look back on today, it'll be like us looking back into the 17th century. Now is not the time to 'leave this planet'. And there is a difference between early man leaving Africa and us going into space. The early man looks out across the river and sees a nice looking buffalo, food. We look out into space and see 6billion light years of nothingness.
Migration has a purpose, food, water, work etc.. I am still yet to get a solid purpose for space travel rather then "because I really really want to fly in a space ship ever since I was 5!".

Quote: Evolving. Learning. Improving. Breaking the limits. Exploring...
Again with the evolving.
Mans been to the moon, are humans different now then what we were before that happened? Do we suddenly have 4 arms and antenna sticking out our head? Not last time I checked.

Learning? It is the only semi-decent argument. And even then easily rebutted with again, robots. We are not gonna see any more then what sending a big ass telescope to planets is gonna see. Any samples we could take, a robot could take. And even after all that, what for? To learn that water was once on Mars (even though we already know that but just using a quick example)?. How does that progress us other then knowing that Mars once thousands of years ago had water.

Breaking the limits? Worth a trillion dollars... nope.

Exploring? Seriously? So it takes us a shit load of effort to send a man to the moon (the furthest we've been out by the way) and yet all our exploring, looking into space etc.. is done and can be done and really is the only way to do it, through the eyes of things like the Hubble.

Quote: To boldly go where no man has gone before!
Man has already been to space.

Quote: This is pretty important for the evolution of our species, technologically as well as psychologically.
No its not.
You want importance to the continuation of our species then go read my ideas in the biodiesel thread.

Quote: We need to test new things, we have already reached the capacity with our current technology
I'm sorry what? Come again?
Sorry, my mind is just a little blown by the stupidity of this comment.

Quote: Every cent spent on a project as huge and groundbreaking as this one is a
cent spent on advancing the whole species, not just some countries.
orly?

Because everyone benefits from major projects as it is? Because I know that when NASA put a man on the moon my parents lives changed beyond their wildest dreams. They suddenly found themselves not needing to work. All famine disappeared and all dirty water purified. Cancer, AIDS and other diseases just suddenly vanish.
OH wait, none of that happened... That's right, America and America only was able to say they put a man on the moon and as I was born and grew up that effected my life in the form of a 2minute mention that man landed on the moon in primary school one day.
Ahhh, good to know the US tax payer really made a difference in people around the worlds life huh..

Quote: Will me and you benefit from it? Probably not, but it would be cool to see it all happen.
And there it is.
Ladies and gentlemen boys and girls, I present to you the reason why people want this and not because of any other reason then this. "It would be cool to see". Forget that it makes absolutely zero economical sense, the money could be spent on a trillion better things and even if we could inhabit Mars there is no point. Forget all that because "it would look cool" obviously trumps all...
School boy fantasy, nothing more.

Quote: But if we all united under one new and incredible thing like USS
Enterprise, maybe, just maybe people will understand the message of the
Federation and start helping people on this planet.
I lol'd.
Didn't know if you were being serious or not so didn't want to comment.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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20-06-2012, 05:57 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
You look at the small picture, only decades in front of you, try thinking 100-200 years in the future. Everything I said makes sense if you look far in the future, if we will look only in our life span, nothing makes sense, LHC is stupid, NASA is unneeded, biodiesel is unnecessary because we have oil for the next 50 years.

I didn't mean we will evolve in a phisical sense, but mentally, our mentality need to change if we are to change the world. Mentality of all people must change. For that, we need something that will unite us, something we must all have in common. This can be such a thing.

When USA sent man on the moon, the world was united, there wasn't anyone on planet that wasn't watchin the event on TV, or listening to it on radio.

Also, NASA and space program left all sorts of new inventions to us, Teflon being one of them, stupid, but we all use it, nonetheless.

The robots you speak of cost millions of dollars, so that would make this whole thing even less economical than it already is.

I think radical thinking and radical deeds must be made to radically change the current state.

Or do you think that we can ease the current situation little by little? This project is talking about huge engineering breakthroughs and simply can not see how that is a bad thing.

Let there be Enterprise! And fuck all you Klingons.

Big Grin

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20-06-2012, 06:09 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
To say there is no point colonising outside of our planet is a nonsense. The only questions are "when?" and "how?". When could be a long way away I'll grant, but the sky calls to us.

I doubt this is the right answer, at least in and of itself. Still, interesting. If we can start to get out into space and bring valuable things back then it might be possible to get the economics to stack up in the long term. Personally I think you'd have combine a spacecraft with space elevator and space station before you could really make regular missions a reality. In the end though, a trillion dollars only costs a trillion dollars if you make nothing back on the investment. A trillion dollars that makes three trillion back is an investment, not an expense. Considering the US alone has more than 15 trillion in debt that is actually costing it money rather than making it money a trillion dollar investment that can make a return is not too huge to contemplate.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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20-06-2012, 06:37 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
1 trillion over 20 years, that's 50 billion per year.
There's lots of governments on this planet that can do that.
Use rockets as taxi's to get up there, would be amazing. I'd sign up for that.

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20-06-2012, 09:27 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
Earmuffs, you've shown that you can give good answers...for someone who is 21 and only looks at how life affects his immediate circumstances.

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20-06-2012, 11:04 AM (This post was last modified: 20-06-2012 11:07 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(19-06-2012 08:39 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(19-06-2012 10:19 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  

[Image: starving-children-africa.jpg]

Sort your own planet out first.

As for the idea in the video of "advance" and flight etc.. Flight actually has changed this world, flight allows faster travel, goods to be traveled etc.. all the benefits of flight.
Space travel offers none of that. It is extremely expensive and the only legit purpose is for scientific research which like I said can be done by robots. Not to mention what does gathering Mars space rock even provide to us here on earth? Yes it is interesting, I am very keen on all things space it is a great passion of mine, BUT it doesn't add anything other then knowledge. And that knowledge is not worth the money that is spent to obtain it.

I'm glad man walked on the moon I really am. That served as a military purpose more then anything, 'we're better then the soviets' (Even though the soviets were first to put a satellite in space and quite frankly that is the more important of the two accomplishments). But there is absolutely no justification to it now.

Please, justify to me why we should spend trillions of dollars colonizing Mars.
But spaceflight DRAMATICALLY improves the quality of life on this planet. From fuel cells for vehicles to water purification tech to the memory foam mattress you sleep on.

Hell, the computer & iPad I type these posts on is a product of the space race, as microcomputers were needed for guidance control on the Saturn V and the LEM.

http://spinoff.nasa.gov/apollo.htm

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20-06-2012, 03:11 PM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
I'm with Muffs.

Too expensive... to spend that amount of money. It will put strain on any economy. Who's gonna pay for it?

I actually wondered if there was a plan to make a company or something but nope.. I clicked over and had a mosey round, the plan is to build it with tax payer dollars. "Only" 50 billion a year for the next 20 years. Good luck with that.
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20-06-2012, 03:40 PM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
Also, his estimates seem optimistic in the extreme. He's got true believer written all over him. I mean... the first pages of the design spec section are about how important it is that the ship should look like the USS Enterprise as seen in the movies...

It *is* a wonderful idea, inspiring... maybe he will get support. But for me, it makes me sad to say no, but no... Tongue
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20-06-2012, 08:32 PM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
(20-06-2012 05:57 AM)Filox Wrote:  You look at the small picture, only decades in front of you, try thinking 100-200 years in the future. Everything I said makes sense if you look far in the future, if we will look only in our life span, nothing makes sense, LHC is stupid, NASA is unneeded, biodiesel is unnecessary because we have oil for the next 50 years.

I didn't mean we will evolve in a phisical sense, but mentally, our mentality need to change if we are to change the world. Mentality of all people must change. For that, we need something that will unite us, something we must all have in common. This can be such a thing.

When USA sent man on the moon, the world was united, there wasn't anyone on planet that wasn't watchin the event on TV, or listening to it on radio.

Also, NASA and space program left all sorts of new inventions to us, Teflon being one of them, stupid, but we all use it, nonetheless.

The robots you speak of cost millions of dollars, so that would make this whole thing even less economical than it already is.

I think radical thinking and radical deeds must be made to radically change the current state.

Or do you think that we can ease the current situation little by little? This project is talking about huge engineering breakthroughs and simply can not see how that is a bad thing.

Let there be Enterprise! And fuck all you Klingons.

Big Grin
Of course I look at the 10-20years in front of me, that was the impression I was getting were talking about here.
Building this thing today.

I agree I don't know about 100-200-300 years from now, but NOW it does not make sense to build this thing. Which is what is being discussed here.

But it wont unit us, it wont make everyone stop killing each other. It will unit scientist and engineers but it wont unit the masses if that is what you are getting at.

Yea, and then a month from a man walking on the moon? Exactly. The cold war was still on, all that desert storm shit still happened etc..

Actually that is a myth. Teflon, and velcro for that matter, were used by NASA but not invented by NASA.

They don't cost 1trillion dollars. Or put lives at risk.

I agree, but this is not it. This will not change shit, just like the man landing on the moon.
Poor people will remain poor and rich will remain rich and so crime will still be around. Islamic countries will always be bat shit crazy as well as Christian countries and they will always scrap each other over shit. Oh and North korea will probably just censer the whole thing.

Yes, little by little is how it is done.
You don't just change 6billion peoples behavior over night. And even if you do you don't do it by building a rocket to the moon. Talking about? Exactly, talking. If they know how it can be done then why not use that to make the engineer breakthroughs you speak of now?
If they can say this is a special way to produce more power from an engine or whatever, then why not make a prototype or whatever now and implement this breakthrough technology with the need of a trillion dollars and a big watse of space spaceship.

Quote: I doubt this is the right answer, at least in and of itself. Still,
interesting. If we can start to get out into space and bring valuable
things back then it might be possible to get the economics to stack up
in the long term. Personally I think you'd have combine a spacecraft
with space elevator and space station before you could really make
regular missions a reality. In the end though, a trillion dollars only
costs a trillion dollars if you make nothing back on the investment. A
trillion dollars that makes three trillion back is an investment, not an
expense. Considering the US alone has more than 15 trillion in debt
that is actually costing it money rather than making it money a trillion
dollar investment that can make a return is not too huge to
contemplate.
Yea if you can make something that is financially viable then go for it. Tax payer dollars wouldn't even be needed, private companies could do that. But mining space rock is no easy feat and if man ever did it would be hundreds of years from now. We couldn't do it tomorrow.

Quote: Earmuffs, you've shown that you can give good answers...for someone who
is 21 and only looks at how life affects his immediate circumstances.
Well somebody has to look around their immediate area and say 'shouldn't we sort this shit out first'.

Quote: But spaceflight DRAMATICALLY improves the quality of life on this
planet. From fuel cells for vehicles to water purification tech to the
memory foam mattress you sleep on.



Hell, the computer & iPad I type these posts on is a product of the
space race, as microcomputers were needed for guidance control on the
Saturn V and the LEM.



http://spinoff.nasa.gov/apollo.htm
And who's to say that those things would not have been invented anyway?

We live in a very different time to the 1960's.
Private companies are bigger now, many many more products are going through research and development phases and being turned out. We have heaps and heaps of new things being produced to solve problems etc...
The government is not as big in relation to the private sector as it once was.


Quote: I'm with Muffs.
It's a Christmas miracle, someone on this site actually agreed with me on something.

Quote: the first pages of the design spec section are about how important it is
that the ship should look like the USS Enterprise as seen in the
movies...
Yea WTF.
Why does it have to be in the shape of the enterprise anyway?
Star Trek sucks, build a star destroyer.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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21-06-2012, 01:52 AM
RE: Building the starship USS Enterprise
Fuck the Star Destroyer, USS Enterprise is better, and this way people can start pushing the political and economical model of the Federation, something like a Venus Project.

You all do realize that your government is spending tons of money on space project today, right? They just need to redirect that money into a new project, they have already abandoned Space Shuttle project, why not take this as the next step? There is going to be a next step and they will be spending money on space exploration, so why not on this kind of exploration?

My idea is that something this big can not and should not be one country's project, this should be a joint project (joint project, get it, Smile ), similar to the International Space Station. That way you do not strain the budget of only one country and you can build things faster. USA, China, Russia and Japan should be the first 4 countries involved in this and if those countries were to start working on this together, then those countries would start to unite on more levels than they are today. These 4 countries have the best knowledge, technology, facilities and economy to do it and their joining would ease up some of the tensions that we can see today.

You see, I can do this all day, until you admit that my logic is superior and you bow down to my superiority!

Tongue

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