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23-04-2012, 08:43 PM
RE: BullShit
Well, the bible scholar sounded credible until 27:43, when he went into his Ken Ham impersonation: when I look at nature and ask how did it all get here, boom! GOD! Case closed!

Amazing how religion can warp even the sharpest minds.
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23-04-2012, 10:53 PM
 
RE: BullShit
(23-04-2012 10:36 AM)IGotCoolSocks Wrote:  I love this episode. It explains a lot... thought id share. Big Grin I got my bible out and followed, its really interesting.



In martial arts, you are known for what level you fight on. If you can only prevail against white belts (beginners) then really you are the same as they are, even if you have a black belt. If you can fight and prevail at least 50/50 with black belts, then obviously you are a good fighter.

In atheist vs theist, if you are still "wowed" over the fact that Genesis is not historical fact, and if that's the level you are fighting on, then you are on the same level as the redneck bible basher.

As a writer, as a novelist, and as someone who loves literature, I can tell you that often the best way to tell the truth is with fiction. Bashing religion is for fools and simpletons. Fools and simpletons interpret religious stories literally and fail to see the symbolic depth of truth therein. Atheists who think they're all smart because they've discovered the flood and Noah's Ark aren't history are the same kind of fools and simpletons. A white belt is as a white belt does.
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23-04-2012, 11:10 PM
RE: BullShit
(23-04-2012 10:53 PM)Egor Wrote:  In martial arts, you are known for what level you fight on. If you can only prevail against white belts (beginners) then really you are the same as they are, even if you have a black belt. If you can fight and prevail at least 50/50 with black belts, then obviously you are a good fighter.

In atheist vs theist, if you are still "wowed" over the fact that Genesis is not historical fact, and if that's the level you are fighting on, then you are on the same level as the redneck bible basher.

As a writer, as a novelist, and as someone who loves literature, I can tell you that often the best way to tell the truth is with fiction. Bashing religion is for fools and simpletons. Fools and simpletons interpret religious stories literally and fail to see the symbolic depth of truth therein. Atheists who think they're all smart because they've discovered the flood and Noah's Ark aren't history are the same kind of fools and simpletons. A white belt is as a white belt does.

Yes but you can only face whoever is in front of you. If there are only white belts there then is it your fault that you aren't facing a black belt?

Similarly, if you're faced with someone who claims genesis as fact then that is what you deal with.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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24-04-2012, 12:16 AM
RE: BullShit
(23-04-2012 10:53 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(23-04-2012 10:36 AM)IGotCoolSocks Wrote:  I love this episode. It explains a lot... thought id share. Big Grin I got my bible out and followed, its really interesting.




In martial arts, you are known for what level you fight on. If you can only prevail against white belts (beginners) then really you are the same as they are, even if you have a black belt. If you can fight and prevail at least 50/50 with black belts, then obviously you are a good fighter.

In atheist vs theist, if you are still "wowed" over the fact that Genesis is not historical fact, and if that's the level you are fighting on, then you are on the same level as the redneck bible basher.

As a writer, as a novelist, and as someone who loves literature, I can tell you that often the best way to tell the truth is with fiction. Bashing religion is for fools and simpletons. Fools and simpletons interpret religious stories literally and fail to see the symbolic depth of truth therein. Atheists who think they're all smart because they've discovered the flood and Noah's Ark aren't history are the same kind of fools and simpletons. A white belt is as a white belt does.


I'm pleased you admit your writings are fiction. Shy
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24-04-2012, 07:07 AM
RE: BullShit
I love Penn and Teller. I have for years. And I loved Bullshit when it first came out. But after watching the episode on recycling, I lost all interest.

Basically their argument went, "recycling is more expensive than mining new resources." That statement, on the surface is true. But it ignores a huge fact. Penn and Teller have bought into the neo-conservative economic model. Their view does not include the cost of externalities. When you factor in those costs, not only is recycling WAY cheaper, you get the added benefit of requiring fewer resources and producing less waste. It was particularly troublesome because I watched it with my friend in Toronto and he was like, "Yeah, man, fuck recycling. Penn and Teller are right. We just gotta make better landfills." The problem with that is that Toronto is so strapped for landfill space that it literally ships it's garbage over 800km to MICHIGAN! So I call BULLSHIT on Penn and Teller.

THE BIBLE EPISODE
-What was the crack about "Doctor" about? Soooo, anyone with a PhD who isn't an MD isn't allowed to call themselves Doctor any more?
-Schermer (who on any given day I think is an ├╝ber douche) had a good point about Biblical literalism.
-Sorry Schermer, there are not 10 billion species. Not by a long shot.
-For me, I agree. Noah's Ark is not possible. But IF God exists, the possible isn't the limit of what can happen. Just sayin.
-I do agree with Schermer (God I hate doing that) that the Ark is likely allegorical rather than literal.
-Schermer goes off about there being no archeological evidence of Jews in Egypt or the desert. I can dig that. But he makes the leap that that means it didn't happen. That's bullshit.
-God killing children. Penn says, "You don't see that in church." Horse shit. It's spoken of in church, and I'm pretty sure that the Jews have an entire day devoted to it.
-God isn't loving because he kills. Did George not love Lenny in Of Mice and Men? It's a very specific morality that conflates love with permissiveness and lack of all punishment. I'm not saying God is a mensch, but if he does something shitty, it doesn't mean he's incapable of love. Churchill allowed Coventry to be razed. Did he not love the English?
-The show has a severe lack of pundits. One pro-Bible and one anti-Bible. It's hardly a chorus of opinion especially since they repeatedly attack "The Doctor" personally and say nothing of Shermer. In fact, they compliment him when he compliments them.
-If Jesus was some dude, yeah, I gotta go with the healing thing being unlikely. If he was the son of God, I'd buy it.
-Rabid, faithful, uneducated supporters. Way to be non-biased, Penn.
-I gotta agree. A lot of the, they're not commandments, but the stone this person and that person stuff isn't observed. Those that say they follow the Bible verbatim got some splainin to do.
-Schermer has a good point about the nature of the Bible; that it's edited and collected and all that. I buy it.

One of the central biases of this episode is that they don't even consider that God exists and has superpowers. It's assumed that he doesn't. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that position per-se, but it's a heavy bias that they make no mention of. My biggest problem with it is that the Bible doesn't claim to have scientific evidence of reanimated messiah corpses. It begins with the premise that God exists and that he has superpowers. So if you're attacking their claims on a natural basis when the claims are supernatural, it's disingenuous.

Anyhoo, thanks for posting the episode. CoolSocks. It gave me something to do. Bullshit's still in my doghouse. Although I gotta say, I still like the Boy Scouts episode.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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24-04-2012, 11:47 AM
RE: BullShit
(24-04-2012 07:07 AM)Ghost Wrote:  One of the central biases of this episode is that they don't even consider that God exists and has superpowers. It's assumed that he doesn't. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that position per-se, but it's a heavy bias that they make no mention of. My biggest problem with it is that the Bible doesn't claim to have scientific evidence of reanimated messiah corpses. It begins with the premise that God exists and that he has superpowers. So if you're attacking their claims on a natural basis when the claims are supernatural, it's disingenuous.
Science is the way that we know things. If someone doesn't claim to have scientific evidence, then they really aren't bringing verifiable evidence... what good is it then?

Penn & Teller, like all magicians, know that all magic tricks have a natural explanation. There was a time that you could fool people into believing that you had "real" magic, and that's what they're mainly attacking in this episode --- claims that Jesus had superpowers. Even if the gospel writers genuinely believed that they witnessed miracles, there's something to be said for their credulity and superstition in their age. This was long before the enlightenment. Now we understand that things that appear supernatural are not; and by "we", I'm not including you, because you still seem not to have been "enlightened" despite the fact that nobody, not even you, has the tools to prove supernatural claims.

To believe in the "premise that God exists and has superpowers" is begging the question. It may convince you fully, but do you understand why a skeptic doesn't come to the same conclusion that you have? And how can you dismiss claims by believers in other religions if you find it fair for them to simply start with the premise that their gods exist and everything said about them is true?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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24-04-2012, 04:14 PM
RE: BullShit
Hey, Starcrash.

Quote:...that's what they're mainly attacking in this episode --- claims that Jesus had superpowers.

But they didn't attack that. Not once. It isn't about Jesus having superpowers, it's about the Bible being bullshit.

I'm of course not suggesting that Jesus had superpowers, I'm just pointing out a bias because Penn and Teller are prone to offering highly biased opinions and present them as the objective truth.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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26-04-2012, 12:46 PM
RE: BullShit
This was the episode that helped me put it all together and realize that it was indeed Bullshit! While I was pushing away from religion I strongly felt that god was real, but in my head I just wasn't connecting the dots. This show pushed me over the edge, it brought to light some parts of the bible I was familiar with and drew a parallel to which convinced me that there was no god since the Bible is the only piece of text that presents any evidence (loosely used here). I remember not wanting to watch it, it felt blasphemous but I pushed through and made myself, by the end I was freaking out thinking that my entire life was going to turn upside down since I was such a huge conservative. LOL. Seems so unimportant now, although I still subscribe to conservatism fiscally I review each social issue on a case by case and use my own mind to determine my stance. Awesome! Anyway enough gushing.

My favorite one even though he did a few around religious things. Thanks for sharing this.
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26-04-2012, 01:41 PM
RE: BullShit
Hey, Texas.

OUT, FOUL CONSERVATIVE DEMONS!

Cool

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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28-04-2012, 12:52 PM
RE: BullShit
(23-04-2012 10:53 PM)Egor Wrote:  As a writer, as a novelist, and as someone who loves literature, I can tell you that often the best way to tell the truth is with fiction.
[Image: YourstorydidntmakesenseNewmemeofmycreati...173271.jpg]

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours"
Richard Dawkins


"Do not pray in my school, and I will not think in your church."
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