Burden of Proof
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04-05-2012, 09:42 AM
RE: Burden of Proof
(03-05-2012 04:03 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 08:37 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Do you want my theological answer to this?
Yes. The question was rhetorical, but it was also one that I can't posit an answer to. I'd appreciate your point of view.
You are either elect and had a regeneration, non-elect and will never experience a regeneration, or elect and not had a regeneration yet.

Because you are not of God, you cannot know the things of God.

John 8:47
47 "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."


God intentionally misguides you because you are not His.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

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04-05-2012, 10:01 AM
RE: Burden of Proof
(04-05-2012 09:42 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  God intentionally misguides you because you are not His.
That isn't very nice Sad

Jesus was more chilled... everyone was his friend Tongue

Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!
Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.


Enlightenment is liberating.
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04-05-2012, 11:34 AM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2012 12:24 PM by ahoy.)
RE: Burden of Proof
(04-05-2012 10:01 AM)ALovelyChickenMan Wrote:  That isn't very nice Sad


I think that is just stating the obvious, that is, the specific that is written.

So as the specifics are written on the criminal or penal code.

Lawyers can be expert on the criminal law or penal code… and yet…. never can they be the judge.

(04-05-2012 10:01 AM)ALovelyChickenMan Wrote:  Jesus was more chilled... everyone was his friend Tongue


Yup, he is the defense attorney : )

.
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04-05-2012, 02:44 PM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2012 09:30 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Burden of Proof
Hey earmuffs, I'd say yes there has been proof presented for the existence and definite non-existance of a god, generally discussing specifics. Most all of this proof was considered inconclusive. There are proofs that force the bible into accepting that it is not a completely true literal historical document. There is no evidence that proves the bible in no way has a divine calling or anything of the sort. And, there is also nothing that has proved any sort of divine inspiration, though it is claimed constantly. The only problem is that all the proof that has been presented is still inconclusive to bring a definite statement even against each god in particular.

I'll continue in this while talking about your larger discussion. No matter the popularity, proof still requires the same things. When Galileo discovered that the earth seemed to be moving and not the sun, not only was this not a popular view, even he (I'm sure) was hoping to be wrong and kept testing. Popularity has no bearing on actual truth. Cultural truth is a wholly different thing. Cultural truth is anything that is accepted by society as society feels it creates advantages. Cultural truth in no way requires proof. So my wonderful end statement to your suggestion that the burden of proof has shifted toward the believer is this; Even in our current age of enlightenment it is completely possible that the view with the most inherent truth is that of animism whih is held by a large portion of the world as a primitive worldview. Even more to the case the correct view might be that held by the ancient Egyptians. It is completely possible still in the same frame as everything else you can debate that if you are cremated your ba and ka will be lost without an earthly tomb and you would stop existing.

You must remember that there is no society where disbelief is uncommon. All societies have various disbeliefs. So there really has never been a time where not feeling something unproven was false has ever been a completely culturally unexpected phenomenon. The simple fact is that the only restriction on this truth is that within all cultures there will be certain views that are held to this impossible standard which debate against will be heavily shunned.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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08-05-2012, 09:13 PM
RE: Burden of Proof
(04-05-2012 09:42 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 04:03 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  Yes. The question was rhetorical, but it was also one that I can't posit an answer to. I'd appreciate your point of view.
You are either elect and had a regeneration, non-elect and will never experience a regeneration, or elect and not had a regeneration yet.

Because you are not of God, you cannot know the things of God.

John 8:47
47 "He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."


God intentionally misguides you because you are not His.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
It's interesting how often Christians tell me that God's will is unknowable just before they tell me that they know his will.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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09-05-2012, 08:51 AM
RE: Burden of Proof
(08-05-2012 09:13 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  It's interesting how often Christians tell me that God's will is unknowable just before they tell me that they know his will.

Man, I really hope that you weren't implying that I'm doing that. If it came across that way, I'm sorry. I didn't mean it.

I was simply addressing what you had said from a theological viewpoint.

But you're right, no one can know the will of God, and I can't impose His will on anyone. I can formulate conjecture as to "why" based on what is given to us in scripture, though. That's what I was trying to do.

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