Burqa Ban
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
16-09-2010, 09:16 AM
RE: Burqa Ban
(16-09-2010 04:55 AM)Dregs Wrote:  So being a Muslim is no longer a choice? If one of these women wanted to be an atheist would the government refuse her request. Sorry you were born a Muslim and you need to stay a Muslim. Now you may say that they will need to leave their families and all their support, and could even be in danger, but its still a choice they can make.

Technically, it is a choice. However, if you've ever heard of stories of Mormons who have abandoned their faith, you'll realise how hard it is. These people were harassed constantly, and then completely ostracized from their community. And this is in the States and Canada.
Because these Muslim women were raised in a very sexist religion, many of them probably have no sense of worth. Who are they to disobey their husbands' wishes? It's complete brainwashing. Yes, they can still choose to leave their husbands, and their family and community, but what are they going to do? Many of them have no jobs, how are they going to support themselves? They would have no place to stay while they looked for a job, because their whole community would ostracize them. No, it is much safer to stay within the religion.

Stark Raving- The article did say that a prison sentence or heavy fine would be given to anyone who forced a woman to wear a burqa, whereas if a woman voluntarily wears one, it's a much smaller fine. So the law is actually targeting those men who are oppressing these women. However, I do agree with you that many women will be "convinced" by their husbands to stay at home :/

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-09-2010, 10:07 AM
 
RE: Burqa Ban
(16-09-2010 09:16 AM)SecularStudent Wrote:  
(16-09-2010 04:55 AM)Dregs Wrote:  So being a Muslim is no longer a choice? If one of these women wanted to be an atheist would the government refuse her request. Sorry you were born a Muslim and you need to stay a Muslim. Now you may say that they will need to leave their families and all their support, and could even be in danger, but its still a choice they can make.

Technically, it is a choice. However, if you've ever heard of stories of Mormons who have abandoned their faith, you'll realise how hard it is. These people were harassed constantly, and then completely ostracized from their community. And this is in the States and Canada.
Because these Muslim women were raised in a very sexist religion, many of them probably have no sense of worth. Who are they to disobey their husbands' wishes? It's complete brainwashing. Yes, they can still choose to leave their husbands, and their family and community, but what are they going to do? Many of them have no jobs, how are they going to support themselves? They would have no place to stay while they looked for a job, because their whole community would ostracize them. No, it is much safer to stay within the religion.

Stark Raving- The article did say that a prison sentence or heavy fine would be given to anyone who forced a woman to wear a burqa, whereas if a woman voluntarily wears one, it's a much smaller fine. So the law is actually targeting those men who are oppressing these women. However, I do agree with you that many women will be "convinced" by their husbands to stay at home :/

100% correct and well said. My problem is what does the governments ban on Burqas do to change any of what you just said? It IS an issue, there are lots of issues out there, but is it one the government should inject itself into? BTW there is an obvious security concern with these Burqas, hell it could even be a man (with a bomb) under there, but no one is siting this and the emphasis of the ban. I can actually understand that concern, so why not just go with that.
Quote this message in a reply
17-09-2010, 06:37 AM
RE: Burqa Ban
Stark Raving makes a good point about this change being forced from without as opposed to coming from within. In the short term that will most likely force Muslim communities to band together and shout the age old refrain of "Help, help, I'm being repressed!". In the long term, though, I don't think it matters who instituted the change. Perhaps the French feel the have a morale obligation to help some of the weakest members of their society who otherwise can't help themselves.

Dregs - I think you grossly underestimate the issues surrounding this "choice". If you are born into a community, spend your whole life in that community and are never exposed to people outside the community, have limited education and no means to support yourself, then how are you going to leave and where are you going to go? Maybe this is a good place to link to the thread on prostitution.

As for whether or not this changes things, who knows. It certainly will not solve anything on day 1. Neither did the Civil Rights Acts when they were passed in the early 1960s. With time, though, seeing blacks every day on equal footing changed perceptions of later generations. Race relations in the US are not perfect, but they get better with each generation and I believe, maybe incorrectly, having to see people of different races on equal footing in day to day life played a role in that.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-09-2010, 07:07 AM
RE: Burqa Ban
I always though this was a very simple issue.

If I were to walk around town wearing a ski mask I would be strictly forbidden from entering public buildings if I refused to take it off.

Jesus Jumping Christ on a traction engine wearing a kilt and eating a marmite sandwich!!!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-09-2010, 05:10 AM
RE: Burqa Ban
These women have every right to wear their burqas. No one's forcing them to wear it. They wear it because that is what their religion tells them to do.

@Cetaceaphile: They have every right to wear their burqas, just as public buildings have every right to not allow them in. Still, I don't think the ski mask analogy works because the ski mask isn't part of your religion (i.e. it's probably not all that important to you).
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-09-2010, 03:00 PM
RE: Burqa Ban
(20-09-2010 05:10 AM)jkshrout Wrote:  These women have every right to wear their burqas. No one's forcing them to wear it. They wear it because that is what their religion tells them to do.

@Cetaceaphile: They have every right to wear their burqas, just as public buildings have every right to not allow them in. Still, I don't think the ski mask analogy works because the ski mask isn't part of your religion (i.e. it's probably not all that important to you).

Of course they are forced to wear burqas. Do you really think that millions of muslim women chose to be oppressed as well?
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-09-2010, 03:08 PM
RE: Burqa Ban
(20-09-2010 03:00 PM)sosa Wrote:  
(20-09-2010 05:10 AM)jkshrout Wrote:  These women have every right to wear their burqas. No one's forcing them to wear it. They wear it because that is what their religion tells them to do.

@Cetaceaphile: They have every right to wear their burqas, just as public buildings have every right to not allow them in. Still, I don't think the ski mask analogy works because the ski mask isn't part of your religion (i.e. it's probably not all that important to you).

Of course they are forced to wear burqas. Do you really think that millions of muslim women chose to be oppressed as well?
Well, yes, many women ARE forced to wear it in Middle Eastern countries, but I don't think France enforces sharia law.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-09-2010, 03:37 PM
RE: Burqa Ban
(20-09-2010 03:08 PM)jkshrout Wrote:  
(20-09-2010 03:00 PM)sosa Wrote:  
(20-09-2010 05:10 AM)jkshrout Wrote:  These women have every right to wear their burqas. No one's forcing them to wear it. They wear it because that is what their religion tells them to do.

@Cetaceaphile: They have every right to wear their burqas, just as public buildings have every right to not allow them in. Still, I don't think the ski mask analogy works because the ski mask isn't part of your religion (i.e. it's probably not all that important to you).

Of course they are forced to wear burqas. Do you really think that millions of muslim women chose to be oppressed as well?
Well, yes, many women ARE forced to wear it in Middle Eastern countries, but I don't think France enforces sharia law.

No but their husbands do.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-09-2010, 07:51 PM
RE: Burqa Ban
(20-09-2010 03:37 PM)sosa Wrote:  
(20-09-2010 03:08 PM)jkshrout Wrote:  
(20-09-2010 03:00 PM)sosa Wrote:  
(20-09-2010 05:10 AM)jkshrout Wrote:  These women have every right to wear their burqas. No one's forcing them to wear it. They wear it because that is what their religion tells them to do.

@Cetaceaphile: They have every right to wear their burqas, just as public buildings have every right to not allow them in. Still, I don't think the ski mask analogy works because the ski mask isn't part of your religion (i.e. it's probably not all that important to you).

Of course they are forced to wear burqas. Do you really think that millions of muslim women chose to be oppressed as well?
Well, yes, many women ARE forced to wear it in Middle Eastern countries, but I don't think France enforces sharia law.

No but their husbands do.
True, but legally they can't force these women to wear burqas, unless I'm missing something here.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-09-2010, 07:55 PM
RE: Burqa Ban
(20-09-2010 07:51 PM)jkshrout Wrote:  
(20-09-2010 03:37 PM)sosa Wrote:  
(20-09-2010 03:08 PM)jkshrout Wrote:  
(20-09-2010 03:00 PM)sosa Wrote:  
(20-09-2010 05:10 AM)jkshrout Wrote:  These women have every right to wear their burqas. No one's forcing them to wear it. They wear it because that is what their religion tells them to do.

@Cetaceaphile: They have every right to wear their burqas, just as public buildings have every right to not allow them in. Still, I don't think the ski mask analogy works because the ski mask isn't part of your religion (i.e. it's probably not all that important to you).

Of course they are forced to wear burqas. Do you really think that millions of muslim women chose to be oppressed as well?
Well, yes, many women ARE forced to wear it in Middle Eastern countries, but I don't think France enforces sharia law.

No but their husbands do.
True, but legally they can't force these women to wear burqas, unless I'm missing something here.

What you are missing is that they are being forced to wear burqas by their husbands whether it's legal to force them or not. And no, it's not as simple as "well go to the police and tell them". It's not a black and white world we live in, and things aren't always as simple as, "well it's against the law, so they can't do it."

[Image: StarkLord01.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: