But Biblical slavery wasn't the same!
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24-08-2015, 08:52 PM
RE: But Biblical slavery wasn't the same!
(24-08-2015 08:00 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  It's an excessive exaggeration that's not actually reflective; Although another point beyond that is, Who approves the concepts of indentured servitude being reasonable in their current westernized or desired society anyway? So it's not really any better anyway.

Exactly. Christians need to understand that this is not a small issue, since THEY are the ones who make the positive assertion/claim:

"We have a book that is the Ultimate Moral Guide™."

And yet, when we open this Ultimate Moral Guide™, we find things that should never at any point in history be justified, regardless of what "the culture" was at the time. God somehow failed to tell them:

1) Thou shalt not own other human beings, nor tolerate other human beings to be property of anyone in thy land. For as you were bondsmen in the land of Egypt, never again shall thy people tolerate this despicable practice.

2) Thou shalt not rape, nor coerce, nor be sexually aggressive toward any man or woman, be they virgin or not; under no circumstances shalt there be unwilling contact between persons. Consent shalt always be required, Thus Saith the LORD.

3) Thou shalt not harm children by word, nor threat, nor action, for if ye harm a child, thou dost offend mine very breast as with a sword.

4) Thou shalt cease and desist with all blood sacrifices in my name, for blood is only there to carry thine air through thine body, which I have appointed for thee, and the spilling of blood for any cause but that thou mayst eat is not pleasing, nay it is an abomination in my sight.

5) Thou shalt keep to mine commandments, in covenant which thou hast chosen, but thou shalt not harm nor treat unfairly those who are not in mine covenant, for they too are my children; as keepers of the covenant, thou shalt be fair and equitable in all thine doings.

(I guess those were on the 3rd tablet that Moses dropped?)




"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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24-08-2015, 09:18 PM
RE: But Biblical slavery wasn't the same!
(24-08-2015 05:47 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(24-08-2015 03:20 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Then how come the fuckers were so eager to get out of Egypt if it was such a piece of cake?

The one thing about religious fucktards is that they are always full of shit.

Quote:Then how come the fuckers were so eager to get out of Egypt if it was such a piece of cake?

I'd like to borrow that, if I may. Bowing

Be my guest. I don't copyright this shit.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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24-08-2015, 09:36 PM
RE: But Biblical slavery wasn't the same!
Nonono. You see, this is how it goes. The ancient people were primitive and barbaric and God knew that it was beyond his power to explain to them that slavery was bad, even though he'd just taken them out of slavery and they knew about it firsthand, and he was forced to confine himself to more easily accomplished goals like getting them to stop coveting their neighbors' wives.
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24-08-2015, 09:42 PM
RE: But Biblical slavery wasn't the same!
(24-08-2015 09:36 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Nonono. You see, this is how it goes. The ancient people were primitive and barbaric and God knew that it was beyond his power to explain to them that slavery was bad, even though he'd just taken them out of slavery and they knew about it firsthand, and he was forced to confine himself to more easily accomplished goals like getting them to stop coveting their neighbors' wives.

Ooooooooooooh. Okay. Tongue

You're a pretty good Apologist. Maybe call and give a few pointers to Lee Strobel, 'cause he sucks at it.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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24-08-2015, 10:03 PM (This post was last modified: 24-08-2015 10:09 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: But Biblical slavery wasn't the same!
(24-08-2015 09:42 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(24-08-2015 09:36 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Nonono. You see, this is how it goes. The ancient people were primitive and barbaric and God knew that it was beyond his power to explain to them that slavery was bad, even though he'd just taken them out of slavery and they knew about it firsthand, and he was forced to confine himself to more easily accomplished goals like getting them to stop coveting their neighbors' wives.

Ooooooooooooh. Okay. Tongue

You're a pretty good Apologist. Maybe call and give a few pointers to Lee Strobel, 'cause he sucks at it.

[poe]

Look, you've heard of Last Thursdayism, right? The idea that the world was created last Thursday with all records and evidence and memories of a false past in place? Well I think God DID that, several thousand years ago, creating the earth with all the evidence of active geology and fossils in place, and with light already en route to us from distant stars as if it had been traveling towards us all along.

Why would God do this? Is He deceitful? No! This false history is true parable! Through the fossils and the geology and astronomy He is TEACHING us about His Creation, about the laws He has put in place through His supremacy over nature to govern our world. From this bountiful revelation of His, we are learning to conquer disease, and understand why earthquakes and tsunamis strike. God's laws of physics are written in the skies, written with His very hand, and we learn them directly from Him.

In mathematical terms, this instant of creation is called a discontinuity. We try to look back into the past using the evidence available to us in the present, and most of the time this works! That is because there is very little change from one instant to the next, such that it all blends into a smooth motion. But when that isn't true, when one second is no indication of what happened the second before, as with the Creation, then this technique is not reliable and must fail!

Okay, fine, a skeptic might say. A discontinuity could cause that. But why would we believe there was a discontinuity at all? What proof would we have of such a radical event? My friends, astrophysics already TELLS us that there is a discontinuity! If we assume that there wasn't a discontinuity, and that tracing the evidence of our senses backwards in time is a good guide to the history of the cosmos, we discover that those senses tell us that there WAS a discontinuity! God Himself placed evidence of this in the parable of background microwave radiation, a clear message that the record of history has skipped! Astrophysicists will try, without any evidence, to insist that this discontinuity happened as early in history as they can have made it happen, and they call it the Big Bang! Well, God forgives them. But since we know for sure that there MUST have been a discontinuity, what evidence is there, what evidence at all, that it occurred 13 billion years ago AND NOT MORE RECENTLY? NONE!

And when the Bible already tells us that such a discontinuity happened, merely thousands of years ago, it presaged the scientific discovery of historical discontinuity by three thousand years!

Is this not the predictive power that skeptics are always demanding for something to be good science?

[/poe]
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24-08-2015, 10:06 PM
RE: But Biblical slavery wasn't the same!
[Image: latest?cb=20090521084413]

^Poe^

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
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24-08-2015, 10:35 PM
RE: But Biblical slavery wasn't the same!
(24-08-2015 09:36 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Nonono. You see, this is how it goes. The ancient people were primitive and barbaric and God knew that it was beyond his power to explain to them that slavery was bad, even though he'd just taken them out of slavery and they knew about it firsthand, and he was forced to confine himself to more easily accomplished goals like getting them to stop coveting their neighbors' wives.

That's the one I hear all the time. That god knew they weren't ready for it. (owning slaves? That's cool. I won't punish you for that. You took a CENSUS? Me dammit, now I have to kill 70,000 people)

It's the same with "Why wasn't god a feminist?"

If the bible is merely outdated, then surely god can come back to earth (now with video evidence of miracles) and re-write it himself instead of inspiring someone to do it. That way there's no confusion.

"Oh, but Ash!" apologists would say. "Then we wouldn't have free will!"

"We wouldn't have free will you say? Why is that?"

"Because we would know for certain god exists, and could not make any other choices."

"Sure we could. Adam and Eve ate the apple when God told them not to. He told them in person. Said to them "Do not eat from this apple, for if you do you will surely die." That's pretty clear. AND THEY STILL ATE THE APPLE!

And how about that time when Jesus walked the earth. Did the disciples lack free will or something? Or did god take it away from them?

Not to mention even if the slavery back then was all peachy keen, and rainbows and kittens and smiles, slavery in the 1800's was pretty fucked up. And God being omnipotent would know it was coming, and could have prevented it. Or Jesus being omnipotent would have (surely by then the whole idea of slavery is bad had caught on?)

Of course then you have my mother's favorite argument (of course to be fair to her, my mom doesn't hold the bible as a great moral authority): "Jesus did condemn slavery, it was just never recorded because the church felt they'd not be able to convert enough people if they put it in because people wouldn't want to lose their slaves." Which I guess is possible, but again. Surely he could come back and tell us this.
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24-08-2015, 10:40 PM
RE: But Biblical slavery wasn't the same!
(24-08-2015 10:35 PM)Ash Wrote:  Of course then you have my mother's favorite argument (of course to be fair to her, my mom doesn't hold the bible as a great moral authority): "Jesus did condemn slavery, it was just never recorded because the church felt they'd not be able to convert enough people if they put it in because people wouldn't want to lose their slaves." Which I guess is possible, but again. Surely he could come back and tell us this.

I don't see a lot of them acknowledging that the Church altered the Bible, since the ones who are the most dangerous ideologues are the ones who think "God dictated the list Himself", and once you admit to alteration then it can all be ignored. (As we do.)

http://www.jhuger.com/kissing-hanks-ass

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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25-08-2015, 05:40 PM
But Biblical slavery wasn't the same!
...But bible slavery was a stepping stone to ending slavery (sarcasm) because they told the people to free the slaves and treat them nicely, went they weren't at the time.

"If you cannot explain it simply, you don't understand it enough" -Albert Einstein
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25-08-2015, 08:54 PM
RE: But Biblical slavery wasn't the same!
(25-08-2015 05:40 PM)smileXsmileXsmile Wrote:  ...But bible slavery was a stepping stone to ending slavery (sarcasm) because they told the people to free the slaves and treat them nicely, went they weren't at the time.

I love that 'argument'.

Because the bible says that you can beat your slaves with impunity, so long as they don't die within three days by any given beating. Very progressive, Bible.

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