But I grew up (me de-conversion)
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17-06-2016, 08:57 PM
RE: But I grew up (me de-conversion)
(17-06-2016 03:14 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(17-06-2016 02:35 PM)QED Wrote:  Sorry, I didn't quite follow this. How is Christianity damaging to a person?

Believing in mythologies to the point where they rule your life, can never be good for you.

If Christianity, and theism generally, is false and naturalism is true, then we are merely complex chemical machines with a deluded sense of our own self-importance. We arose from the primordium and our ancestors so happened to survive. Given that backdrop, it's hard to see how holding false beliefs is bad, and why one ought to hold true beliefs. If our false beliefs are so misguided as to cause our extinction, this can hardly be said to be "bad", since there is no ultimate "good"-making property of a chemical reaction, or even of survival on the naturalistic view.

But I don't think you spoke of "good" in terms of "improving the odds of our evolutionary survival". Rather, it seems that you were communicating that one genuinely ought to believe the truth. And here I agree with you, but it's not clear what this ought-making property is if theism is false. Why, on naturalism, should we hold correct beliefs? What real difference does it make?
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17-06-2016, 11:32 PM
RE: But I grew up (me de-conversion)
(17-06-2016 08:57 PM)QED Wrote:  
(17-06-2016 03:14 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Believing in mythologies to the point where they rule your life, can never be good for you.

If Christianity, and theism generally, is false and naturalism is true, then we are merely complex chemical machines with a deluded sense of our own self-importance. We arose from the primordium and our ancestors so happened to survive. Given that backdrop, it's hard to see how holding false beliefs is bad, and why one ought to hold true beliefs. If our false beliefs are so misguided as to cause our extinction, this can hardly be said to be "bad", since there is no ultimate "good"-making property of a chemical reaction, or even of survival on the naturalistic view.

But I don't think you spoke of "good" in terms of "improving the odds of our evolutionary survival". Rather, it seems that you were communicating that one genuinely ought to believe the truth. And here I agree with you, but it's not clear what this ought-making property is if theism is false. Why, on naturalism, should we hold correct beliefs? What real difference does it make?

[Image: e55958a74b6d1b8406750c6264363c0a.jpg]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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18-06-2016, 03:42 AM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2016 05:45 AM by Leerob.)
RE: But I grew up (me de-conversion)
QED: 4 posts on this forum and already derailed a thread with two of them. Good start.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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18-06-2016, 04:33 AM
RE: But I grew up (me de-conversion)
(17-06-2016 08:57 PM)QED Wrote:  Why, on naturalism, should we hold correct beliefs? What real difference does it make?

I want to live a long and happy life. I want my friends to have long, happy lives. The odds of that happening if we hold beliefs that match reality are going to be much higher than if we belief nonsense.

I don't need any sort of ultimate or objective reason when purely subjective reasons lead me to that conclusion, especially when I see no reason to believe that there is any ultimate or objective "good".

Theists make this all so much more complicated than it has to be,

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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