But why?
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28-03-2013, 02:31 AM (This post was last modified: 06-04-2013 12:32 AM by Doctor X.)
RE: But why?
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28-03-2013, 03:59 AM
RE: But why?
(27-03-2013 10:48 PM)Thoughtful Nate Wrote:  Given the fact that Easter is approaching and I just wanted to get some clarification on the sacrifice and resurrection story. I mean... Jesus supposedly sacrificed himself to rid man kind of sin correct? So wouldn't that mean everyone is free of sin from that point on? If not, then what the hell was the point of him sacrificing himself in the first place.

Secondly, it is my understanding that Jesus is God and vice versa (correct me if I'm wrong). So wouldn't that mean that God sacrificed himself to himself (even though he is all seeing and knew all this was going to happen anyway)!?

Am I missing something here, or does none of this make sense?
Jesus was a masochistic drama queen.Big Grin
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28-03-2013, 06:46 AM
RE: But why?
(28-03-2013 12:46 AM)Egor Wrote:  We didn't have to kill Jesus on the cross--but we did.

Just read the Gospel of Judas which says otherwise. Funny thing is, I wrote a play in college that was rather (cough, cough) "prophetic" about this tidbit. Tongue

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28-03-2013, 07:01 AM
RE: But why?
(28-03-2013 12:46 AM)Egor Wrote:  We didn't have to kill Jesus on the cross--but we did.



We? I had no part in it. I wasn't there. Drinking Beverage

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28-03-2013, 09:48 AM
RE: But why?
(28-03-2013 12:46 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(27-03-2013 10:48 PM)Thoughtful Nate Wrote:  Am I missing something here, or does none of this make sense?

I'm pretty sure you don't want a bunch of atheists' opinion on this topic only, so I'll give you mine.

The Cro-Magnon Christians cannot defend atonement. It makes no sense whatsoever and is contradictory on so many levels, it's amazing anyone even believes it. I wrote an article about it here.

The fact is the sacrifice wasn't to God; it was from God. We didn't have to kill Jesus on the cross--but we did. Now God is pissed, and rightly so. It's a George Bush kind-of-thing after 9/11, "You're either with us or against us." We killed Jesus. Now God is like, you're either with Christ or against him--and the only way you can prove you're with him is to consume the substance of Christ, thus killing off your human spirit and being reborn into the spirit of Christ.

If you won't put your faith in Christ that way--then you nailed him to the cross. It's perfect black and white.

The remission of sins thing through the blood of Christ is part of the Last Supper teaching, which has nothing to do with Jesus being crucified.

All of this is plainly obvious when reading the Gospels, even the ancient Gospels (as compared to the VGJC). But Ancient Christians mix Judaism in; they mix Old Testament and New Testament, and they end up with a contradictory mess.

Seriously, you won't figure it out, and they can't explain it to you. It literally makes no sense.

Your explanation is that it makes no sense? Seems legit. Thanks for clearing that up for us Smartass

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28-03-2013, 10:40 AM
RE: But why?
(28-03-2013 12:46 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(27-03-2013 10:48 PM)Thoughtful Nate Wrote:  Am I missing something here, or does none of this make sense?

The fact is the sacrifice wasn't to God; it was from God. We didn't have to kill Jesus on the cross--but we did. Now God is pissed, and rightly so. It's a George Bush kind-of-thing after 9/11, "You're either with us or against us." We killed Jesus. Now God is like, you're either with Christ or against him--and the only way you can prove you're with him is to consume the substance of Christ, thus killing off your human spirit and being reborn into the spirit of Christ.

If you won't put your faith in Christ that way--then you nailed him to the cross. It's perfect black and white.

Well that's not very fair is it now. I believe (assuming for a second that Jesus actually existed) that the individuals responsible were the ones directly involved in the crucifixion. Why is it then I am being "punished" with the fallacy of sin over 2000 years later? Is god simply racist against humans?

.... Again, I just want to point out that god already knew all this was going to happen. He knew THEY were going to kill Jesus but he did nothing.
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28-03-2013, 11:14 AM (This post was last modified: 28-03-2013 11:30 AM by Heathen.)
RE: But why?
(28-03-2013 12:46 AM)Egor Wrote:  The fact is the sacrifice wasn't to God; it was from God. We didn't have to kill Jesus on the cross--but we did. Now God is pissed, and rightly so. It's a George Bush kind-of-thing after 9/11, "You're either with us or against us." We killed Jesus. Now God is like, you're either with Christ or against him--and the only way you can prove you're with him is to consume the substance of Christ, thus killing off your human spirit and being reborn into the spirit of Christ.

If you won't put your faith in Christ that way--then you nailed him to the cross. It's perfect black and white.

Let's assume for the sake of debate that all of the above is true.....

Who is this we you keep talking about in the first paragraph? Seems to me that all those people are probably dead by now. Are you making a case for time-travel?

In the second paragraph, is you supposed to mean me? How did I get involved in this?

And why would I want to kill off my "human spirit"? I've become quite attached to it.

Black and White? Seems more like plaid.

hint: Invoking the words of Bush II is not helping your argument.

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28-03-2013, 12:07 PM
RE: But why?
(27-03-2013 10:48 PM)Thoughtful Nate Wrote:  Given the fact that Easter is approaching and I just wanted to get some clarification on the sacrifice and resurrection story. I mean... Jesus supposedly sacrificed himself to rid man kind of sin correct? So wouldn't that mean everyone is free of sin from that point on? If not, then what the hell was the point of him sacrificing himself in the first place.

Secondly, it is my understanding that Jesus is God and vice versa (correct me if I'm wrong). So wouldn't that mean that God sacrificed himself to himself (even though he is all seeing and knew all this was going to happen anyway)!?

Am I missing something here, or does none of this make sense?

He didn't sacrifice anything since he knew he was going to be ressurected. If he stayed dead, he'd have a better shot at defending that claim, but no. It's not a sacrifice when you get everything you had back that you claimed you were giving up.

Leviticus does not justify stupidity, but it is more than enough to define corruption of the human mind.

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28-03-2013, 12:35 PM
RE: But why?
(28-03-2013 12:07 PM)Matthew Laramore Wrote:  
(27-03-2013 10:48 PM)Thoughtful Nate Wrote:  Given the fact that Easter is approaching and I just wanted to get some clarification on the sacrifice and resurrection story. I mean... Jesus supposedly sacrificed himself to rid man kind of sin correct? So wouldn't that mean everyone is free of sin from that point on? If not, then what the hell was the point of him sacrificing himself in the first place.

Secondly, it is my understanding that Jesus is God and vice versa (correct me if I'm wrong). So wouldn't that mean that God sacrificed himself to himself (even though he is all seeing and knew all this was going to happen anyway)!?

Am I missing something here, or does none of this make sense?

He didn't sacrifice anything since he knew he was going to be ressurected. If he stayed dead, he'd have a better shot at defending that claim, but no. It's not a sacrifice when you get everything you had back that you claimed you were giving up.

I think you just obliterated Easter in one fell swoop! Can any of our theist friends help clarify there position on this?

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28-03-2013, 12:48 PM
RE: But why?
(28-03-2013 07:01 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-03-2013 12:46 AM)Egor Wrote:  We didn't have to kill Jesus on the cross--but we did.



We? I had no part in it. I wasn't there. Drinking Beverage


Me either. I wasn't even alive during Vietnam. Give a girl a break.

Keep your rosaries out of my ovaries, and your theology out of my biology.
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