By definition, the Christian God cannot exist.
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05-04-2012, 07:20 PM
RE: By definition, the Christian God cannot exist.
Bucky, I think you read it backward, you said basically what I said.
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05-04-2012, 07:36 PM
RE: By definition, the Christian God cannot exist.
I have always wondered where Christians come up with that stuff about God being outside of time and space as I don't read anything about that in the bible. To me that just seems like something someone thought sounded good to support some doctrinal position they are holding. If the bible actually says that I'd like to see it. It does say that we live, move and have our being in his being but never a reference to being outside of the space time continuum.

The God of the bible also said, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge." And just as the gentile unbelievers of the day 2000 years ago blasphemed God because of his people, so it is today with those who don't believe and those who do.

Gary
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05-04-2012, 07:43 PM
RE: By definition, the Christian God cannot exist.
(05-04-2012 07:20 PM)TheKetola Wrote:  Bucky, I think you read it backward, you said basically what I said.
Yeah, I guess you're right. I was only disagreeing about the definition of reality being limited to spacetime. It's true for THIS universe. The fact is, we don't know. Limiting our denial of a god to it's non-existence in spacetime, is only one of many objections, (I have). If there are other "realities", then your objection could fail. It's great as far as it goes, but there is no reason to limit the possible realities to the one we know about, or actually find "intuitive". We know from Relativity, and Heisenburg, and many other examples, the universe is not intuitive. One of the most telling things for me, is that every single idea humans have of god(s) include not one thing they could not have cooked up, or imagined, in their cultural context. NOT ONE THING UNIQUE. It's anthropomorphism run rampant.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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05-04-2012, 08:36 PM
RE: By definition, the Christian God cannot exist.
hehehe

I think you'll enjoy this short vid...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XmtW_fIj68

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05-04-2012, 09:37 PM
RE: By definition, the Christian God cannot exist.
Haha nice video. By the way that's just kind of a tactic that really either avoids the conversation or tests to see if the person is smart enough to have the conversation. You have passed the test, no theist I've talked to has (I never really pull this trick out because I love confrontation though).
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05-04-2012, 10:17 PM
RE: By definition, the Christian God cannot exist.
(05-04-2012 07:36 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  I have always wondered where Christians come up with that stuff about God being outside of time and space as I don't read anything about that in the bible. To me that just seems like something someone thought sounded good to support some doctrinal position they are holding. If the bible actually says that I'd like to see it. It does say that we live, move and have our being in his being but never a reference to being outside of the space time continuum.

The God of the bible also said, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge." And just as the gentile unbelievers of the day 2000 years ago blasphemed God because of his people, so it is today with those who don't believe and those who do.

Gary
It's implied. If you believe that God created space and time, then obviously he hasn't always existed inside of them. It's also implied in statements such as "one day is to the Lord as a thousand years". Plus it's a necessary belief in order to rebut arguments made from atheistic philosophers such as "what came before God?"

It's like the argument of free will. The bible never uses the phrase and directly contradicts it in some places (such as hardening Pharoah's heart), but it's a necessary belief if you don't want to be logically defeated by the Problem of Evil. Not everything that Christians believe is directly drawn from scripture, but has been deduced by philosophers in order for biblical concepts to not contradict each other.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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05-04-2012, 10:34 PM
RE: By definition, the Christian God cannot exist.
(05-04-2012 10:17 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  It's implied. If you believe that God created space and time, then obviously he hasn't always existed inside of them.
Yes, this is it exactly. Science show that time is relative to energy/matter, that without energy/matter there is no concept of time.
Thus if the god created the material existence, then the god is 1. Not made of energy/matter and 2. not bound by time.

But of course this is ridiculous. If there is an intelligent being, it needs to be made of something, and it needs time in order to put two thoughts together.
How on earth it becomes intelligent without any material substance providing data, which could be interpreted as information and converted into knowledge thus being the building blocks of intelligence is beyond my comprehension.

Just as the something from nothing argument posses problems, well the eternal creator god argument not only doesn't resolve these problems but it introduces a whole lot more problems.
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07-04-2012, 12:22 PM
RE: By definition, the Christian God cannot exist.
I love the watchmaker argument in conjunction with a God that's always been.

"Oh so everything is so complex that it must have been created eh?"
"Yes now you get it!"
"Then this God must be exponentially more complex than his design right?"
"...sure..."
"So who's God's watchmaker?"
"...He's always been!"
"You don't see the fallacious of your logic do you?"
"You're going to hell for your blasphemy!"
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