By the Grace of God ...
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26-05-2017, 06:02 AM
RE: By the Grace of God ...
(26-05-2017 05:57 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Some years back I was in a college class with a man who had Dwarfism (apologies if my terminology isn't quite correct). The very vocal member of the God Squad in class told him he was born that way because of some sin of his parents. Facepalm This along with telling a young woman in the class that the reason she was losing her hearing was because she was in a Lesbian relationship and God was punishing her.

Good ol' Xtian compassion. My mum apparently chose to have lupus in a previous life. And a mother who lost her 2-year-old should be eternally grateful because she got pregnant while her child is doing. Praise the lawd Censored

That's fucking horrible about that guy, though. What utter pieces of human excrement.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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26-05-2017, 06:06 AM
RE: By the Grace of God ...
(25-05-2017 11:39 PM)TheBear Wrote:  What the fuck does it mean when, in an event where people are badly injured or killed, like when there's a horrific traffic accident, or a house fire, or an earthquake, or some lunatic decides to blow up people or mow them down with their vehicle, or whatever, the survivors, doctors and others claim that it was by the grace of god that so-and-so survived? Where was the grace of god before the event occurred? Why did it happen in the first place if the grace of god protects people and circumvents lethal situations? Is god like sitting back, watching the horror show and carnage for amusement, then finally says, 'Ok. Enough. I'll intervene now.' ?

It is selection bias and sample rate error.

50 to 60 million humans worldwide die per year on average. We die at all ages and eventually die even when we reach old age. Humans die in the womb, we die stillborn, we die from childhood cancer, disease, famine, and crime and war. Adults the same, we can die from accidental, man made disaster, natural disaster, disease, crime and war.

This bullshit comes from human ignorance, it is simply mistaking your emotional reaction to "oh shit that was close" for having some magic behind it.

There is no magic cosmic security guard helping us. If you survive it merely means the conditions lead to it, if you die, same thing. If humans want to reduce potential harm then you study the conditions and create safety measures to reduce those potential harm.

But in a decade worldwide that is half a billion deaths, in 20 years that is 1 billion deaths. To claim there is an all loving all knowing all powerful God protecting humans is absurd. I would not hire such a selective deadbeat to baby sit my kids if I had any.

Humans are all humans have and that is where the solutions to reduce harm come from, not fictional beings.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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26-05-2017, 06:21 AM
RE: By the Grace of God ...
(26-05-2017 05:57 AM)Anjele Wrote:  This along with telling a young woman in the class that the reason she was losing her hearing was because she was in a Lesbian relationship and God was punishing her.

Funny how God never seems to punish anyone for being a loud mouthed busybody. Dodgy

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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26-05-2017, 06:55 AM
RE: By the Grace of God ...
I wish people would think about what they are actually saying before spouting such drivel. The implications, as have been noted, are not good for their "god".

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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26-05-2017, 09:16 AM
RE: By the Grace of God ...
(26-05-2017 05:57 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Some years back I was in a college class with a man who had Dwarfism (apologies if my terminology isn't quite correct). The very vocal member of the God Squad in class told him he was born that way because of some sin of his parents. Facepalm This along with telling a young woman in the class that the reason she was losing her hearing was because she was in a Lesbian relationship and God was punishing her.

Years back when I was still working and the symptoms of my disability were first beginning to present (those first two years were brutal), my co-workers went on and on about my "spiritual fortitude" and such. Honestly, at the time it just never even occurred to me that the many doctors wouldn't get to the bottom of what was going on; it was more naivete on my part than anything approaching the levels of determinism/"take whatever life throws at me and keep smiling anyway" I think everyone else was seeing.

Once in a morning meeting, I mentioned my father (the retired Baptist minister) was bringing his car in for some work, and I warned the retail crew that it didn't matter what it cost, just make sure it was done RIGHT, because my pop was kind of the ultimate "dick customer" when things weren't just right. I guess I had a reputation for being ethical to a fault (which sadly, is a rarity in most auto shops); after the mention of Dad being a minister, my immediate boss made a remark about how great it was that I was following in his footsteps.

My relationship with my father had been amiable, but still quite often stormy (he wasn't exactly the kind of guy I "looked up to" as a father figure or anything else), and my blurted out response, right there in front of EVERYONE was "DUDE ...I'm a freaking atheist!" I figure a quarter of them already knew (I'd never been shy about it, but honestly, it just rarely came up in general conversation) but some of my really uber-evangelical coworkers were shaken to their core by the admission, because most of them somehow just assumed that my work ethic was related to being some kind of super-Christian/spiritual type.

Suddenly many of the same people that had been all roses about my "fortitude" abruptly changed to "have you considered that maybe god is punishing you?" ...to which my canned response was along the lines of "if so, then that's certainly not a god I'd want anything to do with."

I won't knock my co-workers: not a single conversation ever got nasty, not a single person withheld support in any form even after that, and I sure gave them a lot to digest. Two of the particularly religious guys even had sudden reductions in their weekly averages (we worked on commission) when it sank in that the atheist had a stronger work ethic than they.
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27-05-2017, 02:12 AM
RE: By the Grace of God ...
I have a grandmother and a cousin whom I love and respect dearly. Fortunately, my grandmother's brand of Christianity is sufficiently liberal that our close relationship was hardly even dented when I told her I'm an atheist. The most she said in response, if I recall correctly, was that she was a bit disheartened on my behalf and suspected that my atheism was at least partially due to my anti-social tendencies, as if interacting with other people more would make it easier to see that there were indeed souls and a God behind them.

Anyway, as a teenager, my cousin very nearly ran away from home to escape from a rather dysfunctional situation, but my grandmother happened to call her on the phone shortly before she left and, sensing how troubled she was, invited her to live with her and our grandfather for a while. That incident changed the course of my dear cousin's life in a very positive way, and my grandmother has always believed that it was the hand of God that led her to call my cousin at just the right moment. While I am very grateful that the event took place, I obviously attribute it to sheer luck rather than the will any deity. The apparent miracle evaporates as soon as you realize that, for every girl like my cousin, there were probably dozens more in similarly desperate circumstances whose grandmothers didn't call them in the nick of time.

I pointed this out to my grandmother once, and again, my memory may not be entirely accurate, but I think her reply was something to the effect that those other runaways were just not sufficiently vigilant for or open to God's guidance. I'm closer to her than anyone else in my life. She's been a steady rock in my life that I could always depend on, and we've been known to have long and deep conversations (one such talk was how I told her about my atheism). That is why, in a sense, it pains me to hear an otherwise intelligent and loving woman that I love spout such reprehensible stuff without even realizing how disgusting it is. Even in her fairly liberal brand of Christianity, there still seems to be a double standard by which God gets all of the credit and none of the blame. It's gotten especially awkward under Trump, whom both of my grandparents will defend as unfairly maligned by the media. I do my best to tactfully express my reservations about him and ask a semi-Socratic question or two to hopefully get them thinking more critically, but all the while, there's a part of me that just wants to scream at them, "I'm sorry, but how can you not see that the man's an idiot and a menace, a national embarrassment like no other and a pawn of Putin?!"

Sorry for the tangent, but it felt good to get that off my chest.

The only sacred truth in science is that there are no sacred truths. – Carl Sagan
Sōla vēritās sancta in philosophiā nātūrālī est absentia vēritātum sanctārum.
Ἡ μόνη ἱερᾱ̀ ἀληθείᾱ ἐν φυσικῇ φιλοσοφίᾳ ἐστίν ἡ ἱερῶν ἀληθειῶν σπάνις.
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27-05-2017, 11:50 AM
RE: By the Grace of God ...
(26-05-2017 05:57 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Some years back I was in a college class with a man who had Dwarfism (apologies if my terminology isn't quite correct). The very vocal member of the God Squad in class told him he was born that way because of some sin of his parents. Facepalm This along with telling a young woman in the class that the reason she was losing her hearing was because she was in a Lesbian relationship and God was punishing her.

I swear you can't make this stuff up.

What did the teacher do to her? If they are anything like my professors that was some kind of debate.

"Governments don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking That is against their interests.
They want obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork And just dumb enough to passively accept it."

- George Carlin
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27-05-2017, 12:07 PM
RE: By the Grace of God ...
(27-05-2017 11:50 AM)Ruby Crystal Wrote:  
(26-05-2017 05:57 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Some years back I was in a college class with a man who had Dwarfism (apologies if my terminology isn't quite correct). The very vocal member of the God Squad in class told him he was born that way because of some sin of his parents. Facepalm This along with telling a young woman in the class that the reason she was losing her hearing was because she was in a Lesbian relationship and God was punishing her.

I swear you can't make this stuff up.

What did the teacher do to her? If they are anything like my professors that was some kind of debate.

She said it outside of class...to both of the other people involved. I talked with the professor after the young woman came to me crying and she talked to woman outside of class...the woman started missing classes and eventually washed out of the class.

To make it worse...this was a class about Deaf Culture. Some people in the class were deaf, some were going deaf, some wanted to work with the deaf, one of the interpreters has deaf parents. I was diagnosed with breast cancer during the class session and the professor was a cancer survivor. I am sure we were all seen by the God Squad woman as fallen people in the eyes of her lord.

She was bitter as hell because her mother was deaf and she felt taken advantage of for having to act as a translator for her mother from the time she was young.

Quite the representative for the Christian faith. Dodgy

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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27-05-2017, 01:01 PM
RE: By the Grace of God ...
I simply can't stand people who start every Facebook and Instagram post and Tweet with "God is good!" or "The Lord's blessings are many" or whatever shit way they want to put it. What the fuck did god have to do with you getting through surgery? With your kid being born? With you having success?
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27-05-2017, 01:28 PM
RE: By the Grace of God ...
(27-05-2017 01:01 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  I simply can't stand people who start every Facebook and Instagram post and Tweet with "God is good!" or "The Lord's blessings are many" or whatever shit way they want to put it. What the fuck did god have to do with you getting through surgery? With your kid being born? With you having success?

This just popped up on my feed...

So proud of you *personIdon'tknow*! Your valedictorian speech was absolutely amazing and true! You have made all of us so very proud! I know the next season of your life will be a great adventure. Just keep your hand in the hand of our Heavenly Father! And he will see you through it all!

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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