CHRIST'S TOMB
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07-02-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(07-02-2014 02:09 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(07-02-2014 01:46 PM)toadaly Wrote:  ...and almost the same reputation as well, in absolute value at least.
I noticed that too. I was tempted to give him a negative rep to make it equal but opposite, but I think the whole rep thing is silly.

Smile

Can you neg rep when your rep is in the red? I don't think so. But you were awarded the first neg rep I have ever given. Thumbsup

I try hard not to use profanity or insults on here because people tend to shut you out once ad hominems take over. But I appreciate that you are here Alpha, even though I negged you.

I just think some of your posts are left open to too much interpretation for me sometimes, and given this is an atheist board I figured you were exploring that side of things, my mistake.

It does make me wonder, though, why you don't go to Christian forums and play the devil's advocate there, so you can hear people of your faith defend themselves against whatever you could dream up, to help strengthen your beliefs. I just think your priorities are a little out of whack when you come here to argue and look for reasons to doubt your faith. Wouldn't a deity-based forum serve you better for such a goal, because then you might actually learn something you didn't know about your own religion?

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07-02-2014, 02:41 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(07-02-2014 02:06 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  WillHopp,
All your arguments against Alpha are true because I just noticed that you are a Rush fan and that's all right in my book. Please continue to tear down that Bastille of ignorance.

Doc

Thumbsup Thanks Doc. I've seen them 25 times live. (Not to send this thread into yet another tangent).

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07-02-2014, 02:44 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(07-02-2014 02:39 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  It does make me wonder, though, why you don't go to Christian forums and play the devil's advocate there, so you can hear people of your faith defend themselves against whatever you could dream up, to help strengthen your beliefs. I just think your priorities are a little out of whack when you come here to argue and look for reasons to doubt your faith. Wouldn't a deity-based forum serve you better for such a goal, because then you might actually learn something you didn't know about your own religion?

...if he really is trying to question his beliefs, then the last place you'd do that is on a Christian forum. Firstly, you won't get a different perspective. Secondly, they pretty much all insta-ban anyone who questions foundational beliefs.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
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07-02-2014, 02:44 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(07-02-2014 12:02 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(07-02-2014 11:57 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Ugh. I posed the hypothetical question because I was CHALLENGING your "definitive" original statement, for if there was NO WAY you could be an atheist, then why look for reasons to doubt? Why aren't you understanding that?
Because, as already noted, it's a false dichotomy. Atheism is not the only alternative to Christianity. Why aren't you understanding that?
Quote:I was challenging your belief or at the very least your statement, because I didn't believe you. The only hole I'm digging is to bury you. You say you look for these reasons to strengthen your beliefs, but how much stronger does "NO WAY" need to get? NO WAY is NO WAY/

If you couldn't ever be an atheist, why are you looking for ways to be one?
Again, false dichotomy. Your worldview is quite simplistic. I already noted that there are other forms of theism and deism. Why do you insist that a challenge to Christian beliefs could only lead to atheism? You're just wrong. It's pathetic to see you repeat such a blatant error over and over.

"Your worldview is quite simplistic."

Oh the irony!
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07-02-2014, 02:55 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(07-02-2014 02:44 PM)toadaly Wrote:  
(07-02-2014 02:39 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  It does make me wonder, though, why you don't go to Christian forums and play the devil's advocate there, so you can hear people of your faith defend themselves against whatever you could dream up, to help strengthen your beliefs. I just think your priorities are a little out of whack when you come here to argue and look for reasons to doubt your faith. Wouldn't a deity-based forum serve you better for such a goal, because then you might actually learn something you didn't know about your own religion?

...if he really is trying to question his beliefs, then the last place you'd do that is on a Christian forum. Firstly, you won't get a different perspective. Secondly, they pretty much all insta-ban anyone who questions foundational beliefs.

Nah, there are plenty of Christian sites that allow skeptical thinking, plus there are millions of Christians who would make it their duty to help him if they thought he was truly in need (that's what they are SUPPOSED to do.). But he would likely say he's not questioning his beliefs, rather looking for reasons to doubt. If he went on one of those forums and said, I'm a Christian, but I have been wondering about some things, etc., they would answer him.

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07-02-2014, 02:57 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(07-02-2014 02:44 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "Your worldview is quite simplistic."

Oh the irony!

The Christian worldview requires so much extra garbage bolted on to baffle the enquiring mind that IMO he is definitely within his rights to call anything more straightforward "simplistic".

Although as someone pointed out in another thread, Christians reserve the garbage baffles for arguing with assholes like us, when it's just them it *is* simplistic. God made everything and everything works because of God and Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo​oooooood... Rolleyes

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-02-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(07-02-2014 02:39 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Can you neg rep when your rep is in the red? I don't think so. But you were awarded the first neg rep I have ever given. Thumbsup

I try hard not to use profanity or insults on here because people tend to shut you out once ad hominems take over. But I appreciate that you are here Alpha, even though I negged you.
Which was a "dooshbag" move, as toadaly put it.
Quote:I just think some of your posts are left open to too much interpretation for me sometimes, and given this is an atheist board I figured you were exploring that side of things, my mistake.

It does make me wonder, though, why you don't go to Christian forums and play the devil's advocate there, so you can hear people of your faith defend themselves against whatever you could dream up, to help strengthen your beliefs. I just think your priorities are a little out of whack when you come here to argue and look for reasons to doubt your faith. Wouldn't a deity-based forum serve you better for such a goal, because then you might actually learn something you didn't know about your own religion?
I really don't get your equating challenging with doubting. When I go to the gym with a challenging workout in mind, that doesn't mean that I have doubts, it means that I think it will be tough but doable. When I set challenging goals at work, same thing - I expect to come out better for the exercise. I don't expect that it will lead me to change careers.
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07-02-2014, 03:10 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
Well they know it cause the bible says obviously.

But I wonder is there a tomb which stands today? Where can I find pics?
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07-02-2014, 03:27 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(07-02-2014 11:43 AM)alpha male Wrote:  
(07-02-2014 11:21 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Your first statement is DEFINITIVE. NO WAY you could be an atheist, and you list your reasons. NO WAY means NO WAY, no matter how many hypothetical situations are presented. Of course I grasp the concept of hypothetical situations, but if there's any hypothetical that exists that could sway you from believer to non-believer or doubter, then you should have NEVER said NO WAY, because clearly there's a way, regardless of how remote in your mind that WAY is. Do you not grasp the concept of definitive statements?
Except...you apparently didn't take my first statement to be a definitive covering all possible hypotheticals, or you wouldn't have bothered posing the hypothetical. Think these things through before you post. You're just digging the hole deeper.
Quote:As for me using stereotypes, I'm sorry I didn't realize you were going to be so pedantic about what Christians "do" and what they are "supposed" to do. I thought it was implied.
I believe that. Sometimes I think something's implied and other people take it a different way. I don't go calling the intellectually dishonest over it. I clarify it, at worst being a little snarky by adding "I thought that was obvious."

When you're talking in person to a friend, you have verbal and nonverbal cues and shared history which help to get across meaning which were not put into words. When you're typing to a stranger on the internet, all you have is the words. Misunderstandings happen.
Quote:Christ asked his followers to spread the good news, so a follower does what their savior says, otherwise you're not following him, you're just cherry-picking what you feel like doing in the name of Christianity. Sound familiar?
Feel free to put up the passages for discussion. It's not as simple as you would have it. For instance, was the great commission given to every follower, or those present when it was given? I'd also suggest you read 1 Cor 12.
Quote:In my last post I said Christians are supposed to spread the word (which you must agree with because you chastised me for not inserting "supposed" in there the first time I made this reference) and then you tell me I'm stereotyping when I say by not spreading the word you're not following Christian practices. Spreading the good news IS a Christian practice.
No, I don't agree that every single Christian is called to proselytize.
Quote:If you called yourself an impressionist but never picked up a paint brush or never painted anything in your life, how can you say you're an impressionist?
By doing voices that sound like celebrities I suppose... Tongue

Quote:Are you saying there are denominations of Christianity that say Christians AREN'T "supposed" to spread the good news? Can you point those out to me please?
Mine for one. Not everyone is an evangelist. We're all called to have an answer if questioned, but not all are called to proselytize. Neither do I recall having a Catholic or Methodist knocking at my door, but I have had JWs. There are differing views on proselytizing.

Alpha male, you say you're not here to proselytise, but to practice arguments for your unshakable faith in Christianity.

Something doesn't add up. If you're personally totally convinced of your faith you don't need to practice your arguments, unless of course you intend to present those arguments to others (i.e. proselytise.)

Why don't you come clean and explain the real reason you're here? Why are you arguing with atheists? Why do you need to practice your arguments? It must be either to convince
-yourself
-non believers, or
-fellow believers. Maybe you hold some authoritative position in a church? Are you an "alpha male" in your congregation, and preaching bullshit solidifies your status?

Also, aren't you just a little too smart to believe all that Christian nonsense? If you're intellectually honest, aren't you plagued by cognitive dissonance?
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07-02-2014, 03:31 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
I'm not equating doubt with challenge. When you challenge your faith, what else can you be doing except looking for doubt that your faith/religion can refute (in your irrational mind)? You may not be finding it, but you ARE looking for it, and by not finding doubt, it is strengthening your faith.

If a smaller, obviously weaker man walks up to you and says, "I can beat you in arm wrestling," and you know he can't, you challenge him to a match because you doubt he can beat you. Only when you pin his arm down do you get your affirmation. I'm not equating doubt and challenge, but they go hand in hand here.

And why is me neg-repping you a douchebag move if you think the whole thing is silly? Wink

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