CHRIST'S TOMB
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07-02-2014, 03:44 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(07-02-2014 03:27 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Alpha male, you say you're not here to proselytise, but to practice arguments for your unshakable faith in Christianity.
Let's clear up the misrepresentations:
- I don't claim unshakeable faith. In this thread, I said my faith is stronger than it was when I began online debating. That's a relative measure. Overall, I'm not moving any mountains, so my faith is apparently smaller than a mustard seed.
- I've said that I'm also here just because I like to argue. It's an intellectual stimulation, like doing a crossword puzzle or playing chess.
Quote:Something doesn't add up. If you're personally totally convinced of your faith you don't need to practice your arguments, unless of course you intend to present those arguments to others (i.e. proselytise.)
IIRC I've further said that I do this to have answers ready if questions come up in real life. That's not proselytizing.
Quote:Why don't you come clean and explain the real reason you're here?
I have. You guys just refuse to accept my answers, as you want to think that I'm in some crisis of faith for some reason.
Quote:Why are you arguing with atheists? Why do you need to practice your arguments? It must be either to convince
-yourself
That was a significant factor at first, but as I found satisfactory answers, it's diminished. As I've said, I don't see many new arguments anymore.
Quote:-non believers, or
-fellow believers. Maybe you hold some authoritative position in a church? Are you an "alpha male" in your congregation, and preaching bullshit solidifies your status?
I'm a deacon in my church, but it's a position of service, not authority.
Quote:Also, aren't you just a little too smart to believe all that Christian nonsense? If you're intellectually honest, aren't you plagued by cognitive dissonance?
No, I'm not plagued by cognitive dissonance.
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07-02-2014, 03:47 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(07-02-2014 03:31 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  I'm not equating doubt with challenge. When you challenge your faith, what else can you be doing except looking for doubt that your faith/religion can refute (in your irrational mind)? You may not be finding it, but you ARE looking for it, and by not finding doubt, it is strengthening your faith.
Strange - you say you're not equating doubt with challenge, then in the next sentence equate doubt with challenge. Ohmy
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07-02-2014, 04:32 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(07-02-2014 03:47 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(07-02-2014 03:31 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  I'm not equating doubt with challenge. When you challenge your faith, what else can you be doing except looking for doubt that your faith/religion can refute (in your irrational mind)? You may not be finding it, but you ARE looking for it, and by not finding doubt, it is strengthening your faith.
Strange - you say you're not equating doubt with challenge, then in the next sentence equate doubt with challenge. Ohmy

You would see it that way. In no way am I making them synonyms. They are each pieces toward achieving a goal, like tomatoes and lettuce are to a salad.

Check out my atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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07-02-2014, 04:45 PM (This post was last modified: 07-02-2014 04:54 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(07-02-2014 03:44 PM)alpha male Wrote:  
(07-02-2014 03:27 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Alpha male, you say you're not here to proselytise, but to practice arguments for your unshakable faith in Christianity.
Let's clear up the misrepresentations:
- I don't claim unshakeable faith. In this thread, I said my faith is stronger than it was when I began online debating. That's a relative measure. Overall, I'm not moving any mountains, so my faith is apparently smaller than a mustard seed.
- I've said that I'm also here just because I like to argue. It's an intellectual stimulation, like doing a crossword puzzle or playing chess.
Quote:Something doesn't add up. If you're personally totally convinced of your faith you don't need to practice your arguments, unless of course you intend to present those arguments to others (i.e. proselytise.)
IIRC I've further said that I do this to have answers ready if questions come up in real life. That's not proselytizing.
Quote:Why don't you come clean and explain the real reason you're here?
I have. You guys just refuse to accept my answers, as you want to think that I'm in some crisis of faith for some reason.
Quote:Why are you arguing with atheists? Why do you need to practice your arguments? It must be either to convince
-yourself
That was a significant factor at first, but as I found satisfactory answers, it's diminished. As I've said, I don't see many new arguments anymore.
Quote:-non believers, or
-fellow believers. Maybe you hold some authoritative position in a church? Are you an "alpha male" in your congregation, and preaching bullshit solidifies your status?
I'm a deacon in my church, but it's a position of service, not authority.
Quote:Also, aren't you just a little too smart to believe all that Christian nonsense? If you're intellectually honest, aren't you plagued by cognitive dissonance?
No, I'm not plagued by cognitive dissonance.

"I don't claim unshakeable faith."

Glad to hear it. There's hope for you yet.

"I've further said that I do this to have answers ready if questions come up in real life. That's not proselytising."

It is actually. I accept that you may not be proselytizing here, but you obviously do in church. Check out the second definition.

proselytize |ˈprɒsɪlɪtʌɪz| (also proselytise)
verb [ with obj. ]
convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another: the programme did have a tremendous evangelical effect, proselytizing many | [ no obj. ] : proselytizing for converts | (as nounproselytizing) : no amount of proselytizing was going to change their minds.
• advocate or promote (a belief or course of action): Davis wanted to share his concept and proselytize his ideas.

"as you want to think that I'm in some crisis of faith for some reason." I don't "want to" think this. It is just a perfectly reasonable assumption (which may be wrong.)

"I'm a deacon in my church, but it's a position of service, not authority."
I say bullshit to this. Every pope, priest, preacher, elder and deacon has always claimed this as they've lorded it over the masses and children. They've all taking money from the people too, and a large portion of them have sexually abused children. Then there is the psychological abuse that is part and parcel of Christian belief. Positions in churches are all about power, money and sex. This is why churches were created by the Roman Government in the first place.

"As I've said, I don't see many new arguments anymore." You're not reading widely enough. Start here...
http://www.markfulton.org/was-christiani...nment-plot

"No, I'm not plagued by cognitive dissonance."
Then you've obviously stopped thinking.
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08-02-2014, 06:40 AM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(07-02-2014 04:45 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "I'm a deacon in my church, but it's a position of service, not authority."
I say bullshit to this. Every pope, priest, preacher, elder and deacon has always claimed this as they've lorded it over the masses and children. They've all taking money from the people too, and a large portion of them have sexually abused children. Then there is the psychological abuse that is part and parcel of Christian belief. Positions in churches are all about power, money and sex. This is why churches were created by the Roman Government in the first place.

Actually, in my experience, a deacon is pretty much a volunteer service. They tend to help with the physical running of the service, but they don't have a leadership role. An elder would likely do both (as was the case when I was an elder for five years).
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08-02-2014, 04:26 PM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(08-02-2014 06:40 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(07-02-2014 04:45 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "I'm a deacon in my church, but it's a position of service, not authority."
I say bullshit to this. Every pope, priest, preacher, elder and deacon has always claimed this as they've lorded it over the masses and children. They've all taking money from the people too, and a large portion of them have sexually abused children. Then there is the psychological abuse that is part and parcel of Christian belief. Positions in churches are all about power, money and sex. This is why churches were created by the Roman Government in the first place.

Actually, in my experience, a deacon is pretty much a volunteer service. They tend to help with the physical running of the service, but they don't have a leadership role. An elder would likely do both (as was the case when I was an elder for five years).

Ok.
The guy admits he is here to practice his arguing skills, so he must have some status or teaching role, or is hoping to move into such. Perhaps he could fill us in?
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10-02-2014, 08:01 AM
RE: CHRIST'S TOMB
(08-02-2014 04:26 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Ok.
The guy admits he is here to practice his arguing skills, so he must have some status or teaching role, or is hoping to move into such. Perhaps he could fill us in?

I wouldn't count on that. By and large, he's been fairly silent about his beliefs. He just wants to pick apart the beliefs of others. I wouldn't normally care too much about that, except that it looks like he is purposefully shielding his beliefs from scrutiny.
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