CIA releases documents on Iran coup.
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22-08-2013, 07:59 AM
RE: CIA releases documents on Iran coup.
(22-08-2013 07:00 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(22-08-2013 05:46 AM)I and I Wrote:  you seem to be confused about the type of people on this forum. They jack off to "there is no evidence" and constantly decry EVERY FUCKING CLAIM of U.S. involvement in coups to be just wacky conspiracy theories.

Now the "there is no evidence" line can't be used.

Well, you know. Except the ones there is evidence for. Like this one. Which there was evidence for even prior to the last couple days. And we all acknowledged that.

I know it's a hard concept to grasp, but "believing claims when there is evidence of them and not believing claims when there isn't" is actually a rather logically sound attitude.

When you are dealing with institutions that are alive and well and have a long history of and vested interest in fucking stuff up and covering stuff up you have to put aside the desire for hard officially sanctioned evidence, look at the validity of the claim, the history, the eye witness claims, reports of smaller news/citizens outfits, the logistics of the cover up and then make an assessment of probability....

An apple won't stop you from measuring it's velocity, or attaining it's mass...but this isn't science it's politics and the CIA will sure as shit keep it's clandestine operations clandestine.

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22-08-2013, 08:33 AM
RE: CIA releases documents on Iran coup.
(22-08-2013 07:59 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  When you are dealing with institutions that are alive and well and have a long history of and vested interest in fucking stuff up and covering stuff up you have to put aside the desire for hard officially sanctioned evidence, look at the validity of the claim, the history, the eye witness claims, reports of smaller news/citizens outfits, the logistics of the cover up and then make an assessment of probability....

An apple won't stop you from measuring it's velocity, or attaining it's mass...but this isn't science it's politics and the CIA will sure as shit keep it's clandestine operations clandestine.

Oh, absolutely. Which is why in some cases (such as, er, Iran '53) we could make very solid guesses as to what happened even before 100% official confirmation. We know there was CIA involvement in southeast Asia, all over central and south America, the occasional African adventure... That's what foreign intelligence does! And the USA being the USA, they were free to enact far more shenanigans than anyone else, even the Soviets - but it's not like the Russians, British, French, Chinese, Israelis etc did/do nothing.

"They did other things so therefore they did this thing too" is just silly. If that's all one's got one's got nothing.

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22-08-2013, 08:55 AM
RE: CIA releases documents on Iran coup.
(22-08-2013 08:33 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(22-08-2013 07:59 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  When you are dealing with institutions that are alive and well and have a long history of and vested interest in fucking stuff up and covering stuff up you have to put aside the desire for hard officially sanctioned evidence, look at the validity of the claim, the history, the eye witness claims, reports of smaller news/citizens outfits, the logistics of the cover up and then make an assessment of probability....

An apple won't stop you from measuring it's velocity, or attaining it's mass...but this isn't science it's politics and the CIA will sure as shit keep it's clandestine operations clandestine.

Oh, absolutely. Which is why in some cases (such as, er, Iran '53) we could make very solid guesses as to what happened even before 100% official confirmation. We know there was CIA involvement in southeast Asia, all over central and south America, the occasional African adventure... That's what foreign intelligence does! And the USA being the USA, they were free to enact far more shenanigans than anyone else, even the Soviets - but it's not like the Russians, British, French, Chinese, Israelis etc did/do nothing.

"They did other things so therefore they did this thing too" is just silly. If that's all one's got one's got nothing.

Oh no doubt it's part of the game that is the international politics. Anyone who has ever played Civ knows that you need to get your hands dirty sometimes.

Just saying I don't need an official document to tell me that the CIA is mucking about with Syria, South America, etc. Heck I suspect they/the FBI had something to do with John Lennon and MLK to.

...Can I prove any of it? No. Would I claim that the Soviets and Indians and Chinese and Pakistanis, etc aren't doing it? No, of course not.

I just think that the American people have been lost in fairy land and have no clue what the government is doing abroad. That the government is stuck in the cold war, world police, anti-soviet mindset (augmented with economic imperialism) that dominated the second half of this century and I think it's an unsustainable model.

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