CS Lewis stupid?
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26-02-2014, 11:49 PM
RE: CS Lewis stupid?
(26-02-2014 11:47 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(26-02-2014 11:15 PM)toadaly Wrote:  ...that seems a bit harsh, but I suppose you're entitled to your opinion.

I couldn't even get 1 'like' for that post.
*sniff*

Feel better now ?
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27-02-2014, 12:13 AM
RE: CS Lewis stupid?
(26-02-2014 11:47 PM)Lion IRC Wrote:  
(26-02-2014 11:15 PM)toadaly Wrote:  ...that seems a bit harsh, but I suppose you're entitled to your opinion.

I couldn't even get 1 'like' for that post.
*sniff*

..ask and you shall receive. I 'liked' it for you. This is the second time today I helped you out. You were sad about a -13 rating, so I fixed that too. You're wlecome. Sleepy

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27-02-2014, 01:38 AM
RE: CS Lewis stupid?
Quote:My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too—for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies.

He makes a fair point. The argument from injustice against god hinges on whether or not one considers himself capable of determining what is just or unjust. If one decides to take what I consider to be the servile route of thought, as CS Lewis does, one surrenders that standard of judgement for the Master or "god". In one fell swoop you can surrender both dignity and responsibility. If one decides the world is not unjust after all, since god determines what is just, what motivation could he possibly possess to better the world, since it is in accordance with god's will in its current state?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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27-02-2014, 01:40 AM
RE: CS Lewis stupid?
(27-02-2014 01:38 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  
Quote:My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too—for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies.

He makes a fair point. The argument from injustice against god hinges on whether or not one considers himself capable of determining what is just or unjust. If one decides to take what I consider to be the servile route of thought, as CS Lewis does, one surrenders that standard of judgement for the Master or "god". In one fell swoop you can surrender both dignity and responsibility. If one decides the world is not unjust after all, since god determines what is just, what motivation could he possibly possess to better the world, since it is in accordance with god's will in its current state?

Yeah and that is called divine command theory and it fails. God does not determine what is right or wrong.
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27-02-2014, 01:46 AM
RE: CS Lewis stupid?
(27-02-2014 01:40 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Yeah and that is called divine command theory and it fails. God does not determine what is right or wrong.

I agree, although I can see how changing how morality is measured can dramatically change belief.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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27-02-2014, 01:48 AM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2014 01:52 AM by donotwant.)
RE: CS Lewis stupid?
If god commands tomorrow that torturing children is right would that make it right? If not then morality is independent of god and he can't change it. If yes then might makes right and morality doesn't exist.
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27-02-2014, 10:51 AM
RE: CS Lewis stupid?
(27-02-2014 01:48 AM)donotwant Wrote:  If god commands tomorrow that torturing children is right would that make it right? If not then morality is independent of god and he can't change it. If yes then might makes right and morality doesn't exist.
Morality is subjective, and so for all practical purposes, might makes right. People go crazy when they hear that, but that's how it is. The same act can be a crime or permissible depending on where and when it's done. The same act can be consensual sex or statutory rape depending on which side of a border it's done on.
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27-02-2014, 11:01 AM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2014 11:10 AM by donotwant.)
RE: CS Lewis stupid?
(27-02-2014 10:51 AM)alpha male Wrote:  
(27-02-2014 01:48 AM)donotwant Wrote:  If god commands tomorrow that torturing children is right would that make it right? If not then morality is independent of god and he can't change it. If yes then might makes right and morality doesn't exist.
Morality is subjective, and so for all practical purposes, might makes right. People go crazy when they hear that, but that's how it is. The same act can be a crime or permissible depending on where and when it's done. The same act can be consensual sex or statutory rape depending on which side of a border it's done on.

So you are a moral relativist. Good thing you admit it.
As for might makes right might makes action, not right.
No matter how powerful someone is he can never make 2+2=5 just as no matter how powerful someone is he can't make wrong action right.
Right and wrong are independent of force.
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