California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
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09-10-2015, 12:32 PM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(09-10-2015 12:30 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 12:26 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  [Image: spaceballswhat.gif]

Lol. If the baker wants to make a KKK cake, and an employee refuses, he can be fired for insubordination. A job is a job. The boss is the boss. Simples.

Me thinks you are on the wrong track here. This isn't about employees.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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09-10-2015, 12:35 PM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(09-10-2015 12:32 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 12:30 PM)Dom Wrote:  Lol. If the baker wants to make a KKK cake, and an employee refuses, he can be fired for insubordination. A job is a job. The boss is the boss. Simples.

Me thinks you are on the wrong track here. This isn't about employees.

It's about "conscientious objection", is it not? Granted, I haven't read the whole thread, I am only responding to that one remark of yours.

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09-10-2015, 12:38 PM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(09-10-2015 12:35 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 12:32 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Me thinks you are on the wrong track here. This isn't about employees.

It's about "conscientious objection", is it not? Granted, I haven't read the whole thread, I am only responding to that one remark of yours.
That term is generally used for military service. Not sure if it applies here.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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09-10-2015, 01:37 PM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(09-10-2015 12:30 PM)Dom Wrote:  Lol. If the baker wants to make a KKK cake, and an employee refuses, he can be fired for insubordination. A job is a job. The boss is the boss. Simples.

The first amendment does not exempt one from fulfilling their obligations of employment. If the baker had an employee who refused to bake a wedding cake for a same sex marriage then the baker has the right to fire that employee.

But we are not talking about employees. We are talking about owner/operators. If Rite Aid wants to fire a pharmacist because they won't dispense emergency contraceptives Rite Aid should be free to do that. If the owners of Rite Aid decide they don't want to dispense emergency contraceptives because they morally object to them, they should be free to not carry them. Just as Walmart should be free to not carry AK47s if they don't want too.
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09-10-2015, 01:58 PM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(09-10-2015 12:18 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 12:09 PM)Dom Wrote:  Nonsense. Nobody is forcing any religious sect to partake in any acts which are prohibited by their religion. They are trying to force others to adhere to the religious rules that apply to that particular sect.

If you force them to provide their service, you are FORCING them to partake. It's like a baker that refuses to sell a cake to a KKK meeting. No, the baker doesn't have to physically attend the meeting, but why should they be forced to support it in any way? It's their flour. It's their eggs. It's their electric bill that heats the oven. They should be able to do what they want.

No one is forcing them to be in a business where they might have to -- eek! -- serve gays. But it is in the interest of society that all citizens get treated equally.

Do you think business owners should be allowed to discriminate against blacks?
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09-10-2015, 02:07 PM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2015 02:12 PM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(09-10-2015 01:58 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 12:18 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  If you force them to provide their service, you are FORCING them to partake. It's like a baker that refuses to sell a cake to a KKK meeting. No, the baker doesn't have to physically attend the meeting, but why should they be forced to support it in any way? It's their flour. It's their eggs. It's their electric bill that heats the oven. They should be able to do what they want.

No one is forcing them to be in a business where they might have to -- eek! -- serve gays. But it is in the interest of society that all citizens get treated equally.

Do you think business owners should be allowed to discriminate against blacks?

I would hope that part of history never repeats itself. But gay and black are not the same thing. Gay is not a race. Or an ethnicity. What religious basis could one have for not serving blacks? The bible is pretty clear with the whole "do not lay with a man as you would lay with a woman" thing. But I've never heard someone quote a bible passage that says "do not lay with a black as you would lay with a white." Or anything that implicitly advocates racism in the modern age. I'm sure there are passages that were used in the past about living amongst infidels or something that racists used but I don't know of any true white vs. black racism that could be used to justify. But their bible is pretty clear about the whole gay thing.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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09-10-2015, 02:09 PM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(09-10-2015 02:07 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 01:58 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  No one is forcing them to be in a business where they might have to -- eek! -- serve gays. But it is in the interest of society that all citizens get treated equally.

Do you think business owners should be allowed to discriminate against blacks?

I would hope that part of history never repeats itself. But gay and black are not the same thing. What religious basis could one have for not serving blacks? The bible is pretty clear with the whole "do not lay with a man as you would lay with a woman" thing. But I've never heard someone quote a bible passage that says "do not lay with a black as you would lay with a white." Or anything that implicitly advocates racism in the modern age. I'm sure there are passages that were used in the past about living amongst infidels or something that racists used but I don't know of any true white vs. black racism that could be used to justify. But their bible is pretty clear about the whole gay thing.

People used to say that blacks were obsessed by demons and all that shit. The hell the problem wasn't usurped by religion.

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09-10-2015, 02:15 PM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(09-10-2015 12:18 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 12:09 PM)Dom Wrote:  Nonsense. Nobody is forcing any religious sect to partake in any acts which are prohibited by their religion. They are trying to force others to adhere to the religious rules that apply to that particular sect.

If you force them to provide their service, you are FORCING them to partake. It's like a baker that refuses to sell a cake to a KKK meeting. No, the baker doesn't have to physically attend the meeting, but why should they be forced to support it in any way? It's their flour. It's their eggs. It's their electric bill that heats the oven. They should be able to do what they want.


Nobody is forcing them to operate their own business. But if they choose to operate a small business, that comes with certain restrictions. By doing so, they are voluntarily giving up their freedom to discriminate in order to abide by anti-discrimination laws; such is the cost of owning and operating a licensed small business in our country.


They don't like it? They needn't be forced to like it. Their approval isn't necessary, only their compliance is. They always have the option to quit, cash out, and go be a bigot someplace else. Drinking Beverage

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09-10-2015, 02:24 PM (This post was last modified: 09-10-2015 06:36 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(09-10-2015 02:07 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I would hope that part of history never repeats itself. But gay and black are not the same thing. What religious basis could one have for not serving blacks?


Mormonism, pre-Civil Rights era, when blacks were seen as the marked descendants of Cain. Facepalm


(09-10-2015 02:07 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  The bible is pretty clear with the whole "do not lay with a man as you would lay with a woman" thing.


But they're Christians, and funny things is, there are two topics that (supposedly) Jesus himself never speaks on; homosexuality and slavery.

Because let's not forget the Old Testament sees shellfish, mixed fabrics, picking up sticks on Saturday, and field planted with mixed crops as 'abominations' worthy of death. Drinking Beverage


(09-10-2015 02:07 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  But I've never heard someone quote a bible passage that says "do not lay with a black as you would lay with a white." Or anything that implicitly advocates racism in the modern age. I'm sure there are passages that were used in the past about living amongst infidels or something that racists used but I don't know of any true white vs. black racism that could be used to justify. But their bible is pretty clear about the whole gay thing.


Study the Civil War, look at what the Confederates were using to bolster their arguments in favor of owning other people.


ProTip: They had better and more straightforward argument, vis-a-vis the Bible, than the abolitionists did.

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09-10-2015, 02:34 PM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(09-10-2015 02:15 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 12:18 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  If you force them to provide their service, you are FORCING them to partake. It's like a baker that refuses to sell a cake to a KKK meeting. No, the baker doesn't have to physically attend the meeting, but why should they be forced to support it in any way? It's their flour. It's their eggs. It's their electric bill that heats the oven. They should be able to do what they want.


Nobody is forcing them to operate their own business. But if they choose to operate a small business, that comes with certain restrictions. By doing so, they are voluntarily giving up their freedom to discriminate in order to abide by anti-discrimination laws; such is the cost of owning and operating a licensed small business in our country.


They don't like it? They needn't be forced to like it. Their approval isn't necessary, only their compliance is. They always have the option to quit, cash out, and go be a bigot someplace else. Drinking Beverage
Let me explain it a different way using different groups.

Atheist baker owns a bakery down on 1st St. This atheist baker doesn't agree with circumcision. He believes its no longer medically necessary, and old fashioned.

A Jewish family enters the bakery. Atheist baker regularly sells this family cakes for birthdays, gives the children cookies and cupcakes. They get along fine.

But on this occasion, the Jewish family wants to buy a cake for the brit milah ceremony for their newborn baby. During this ceremony, the baby will undergo circumcision. The atheist baker declines to sell the Jewish family the cake due to his deeply held beliefs that circumcision is wrong.

In this scenario, is the baker discriminating against the Jewish religion, or against the practice of circumcision?

It's the same for the gay wedding situation. The bakery owners had other gay customers that they sold products to. It's not like they turned away all gay customers every time they walked into the store. They were turning away the gay wedding itself.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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