California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
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07-10-2015, 09:55 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(07-10-2015 04:18 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I truly hope the majority doesn't force its morality unto the minority. ... But sadly, that seems to be happening a lot in our society these days.

And your evidence that this happens more than it did in prior times is... ?

Don't bother answering, by the way. I'd hate for you to make a liar out of yourself:
(05-10-2015 01:26 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I'm going to limit my time here for a while because this forum has really pissed me off lately.

... this is my signature!
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07-10-2015, 10:02 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2015 10:08 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(07-10-2015 04:18 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 03:26 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  And what AB number is that? Do you have a bill you can reference that proposes such a thing?

No, you don't. You're playing scare tactics.

By all means, quit posting.

No, really, if this is the best horseshit you can shovel, hang it up. It's weak, thoughtless, and makes you look unworthy of any comment beyond this friendly advice.

In some states pharmacists cannot refuse to dispense emergency contraceptive based on religious and moral objections. The way it worked is these drugs became legal and then soon following laws were passed forcing pharmacists to dispense these drugs. I imagine the same pattern will hold with these suicide drugs.

Now It is my position that a pharmacist who is an employee must fulfill their obligations of employment including dispensing emergency contraceptives if they are to have an expectation of keeping their job. However the state shouldn't force an owner/operator pharmacist to dispense such drugs if they have moral or religious objections.

I truly hope that I am wrong here. I truly hope the majority doesn't force its morality unto the minority. Just because you think suicide pills or emergency contraceptives are moral doesn't allow you to force your morality onto someone else. But sadly, that seems to be happening a lot in our society these days.

Here is the point dipshits like you dont understand...you have the freedom of choice to NOT decide to take the pain free way out as a person suffering from a terminal disease. What you shouldnt have is the ability to restrict someone with different views from having that choice..get it?

it is like homosexuality and same sex marriage. Don't want a dick in your mouth? good, then don't suck a dick. Don't want to marry a man? Good, then don't marry a man. You fuckwads act like because people are gaining rights to choose for themselves if they want to take the less painful road to die when suffering from a painful terminal disease is somehow robbing you of your made up religious rights and "morals".....you act like someone else having the right to love whom they want, have sex with whom they want, and marry whom they want somehow violates YOUR choices. it isnt like gay men are going to break down your door and shove a dick in your mouth because samesex marriage is now legal.....or some entity or another is going to break down your door and make you swallow a "suicide pill"....wake the fuck up.

"I truly hope the majority doesn't force its morality unto the minority."

They have been, it is called the christian majority...YOU are the establishment....and thankfully in a nation of laws, freedom and rights we are finally getting out from under your tyrannical rule based on your majority views centered on delusion, fiction and fairy tales.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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07-10-2015, 10:09 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(07-10-2015 02:26 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I'm not opposed to this law. However I will be opposed when the Governor signs a law requiring pharmacies to carry and dispense these suicide drugs.

Doctors and pharmacies don't necessarily have a part to play in the situation, directly.

In the last couple years of my father's life he amassed quite a supply of Oxy and other opioids. On our last visit to see him, his kitchen counter was quite the drug addicts paradise. We were there for a week, he was in a facility on hospice care. I had to be the one to approve his refusal of antibiotics and tube-feedings. Someone had to attest that that was his wish.

One week after we all went to our homes, he was gone. I was first back to his home (cross country trip for all three of us). All of the drugs were still on the counter with the exception of the Oxy. Later we found out that his lady friend brought them to him at his request. Was this planned by him, to keep that amount on hand, we will never know. But given his medical background I am sure that he knew about how much he would need. He certainly knew the progression of his illnesses.

You can argue that his friend assisted his suicide as he couldn't make it to his house to get the medication. However, the meds were prescribed to him prior to his wishes being formally made.

No doctor or pharmacy had a hand in prescribing or dispensing his lethal dose. The meds had been dispensed over a period of months.

None of us (family) hold his friend accountable in any way. Had he asked me or my sister, we would have done it. My brother as a member of law enforcement probably wouldn't have, but that would have been based on his profession and not his personal opinion.

Not everyone will have the ability to amass a go kit like dad did. In that case there would be three choices...suffer horribly, get the meds legally, or get the meds illegally. I would prefer a legal way to end the suffering.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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07-10-2015, 10:18 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
This whole theistic view of anti-death by dignity is based of course on their delusional view that god has a plan for each of us Rolleyes and if it is god's plan that you suffer for months, even years from a non curable disease...well then suck it up buttercup. How dare you disobey god by circumventing his plan with an easy out option?

I wish every single person who has that point of view gets the most painful road to death possible. When I watched my daughter whither and die slowly after battling a terminal disease, and the only option the doctors had was "humane dehydration"....which is anything but humane, you keep them drugged up and take away food and water......horrifying....think about watching your little girl twist around in agony. I would stroke her cheek with tears raining down my face and she would instinctively turn towards my hand and open her mouth...starving to death....only legal option...this is something NO ONE should experience. Hell I don't want to be the one on the bed in pain slowly dying either. If there is no prognosis for recovery, let me say my goodbyes, and give me a pill. My wife and I have agreed this is how we want to go in that situation. Whether it is legal or not. it SHOULD be legal.

It is like legalized abortion. Before it was legal people were going to hotels and having some wackjob go at them with a wire...and they would bleed to death, or have horrible complications....

Give people the legal ability to die with dignity so that they can receive the right meds for that option if they so choose.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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07-10-2015, 10:21 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
Oh shit. god is going to bring this nation to its knees now, just y'all wait and see. A godless nation is a gutless nation. #standupfornotendinglife

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07-10-2015, 10:40 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(07-10-2015 10:18 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  This whole theistic view of anti-death by dignity is based of course on their delusional view that god has a plan for each of us Rolleyes and if it is god's plan that you suffer for months, even years from a non curable disease...well then suck it up buttercup. How dare you disobey god by circumventing his plan with an easy out option?

I wish every single person who has that point of view gets the most painful road to death possible. When I watched my daughter whither and die slowly after battling a terminal disease, and the only option the doctors had was "humane dehydration"....which is anything but humane, you keep them drugged up and take away food and water......horrifying....think about watching your little girl twist around in agony. I would stroke her cheek with tears raining down my face and she would instinctively turn towards my hand and open her mouth...starving to death....only legal option...this is something NO ONE should experience. Hell I don't want to be the one on the bed in pain slowly dying either. If there is no prognosis for recovery, let me say my goodbyes, and give me a pill. My wife and I have agreed this is how we want to go in that situation. Whether it is legal or not. it SHOULD be legal.

It is like legalized abortion. Before it was legal people were going to hotels and having some wackjob go at them with a wire...and they would bleed to death, or have horrible complications....

Give people the legal ability to die with dignity so that they can receive the right meds for that option if they so choose.

Death with dignity is such an important concept for people to understand. Watching my big, strong father wither away, incontinent, and in ever-increasing pain was horrifying. His mind was clear (except for medication related glitches). He knew what was happening, he knew what was likely to happen next, he knew that everything he enjoyed was now a thing of the past. He would never walk again, he would never do anything he liked to do again. He was a shell of dying organs, laying in his own waste unable to do anything about it. Pain was beyond the point of being controllable. I would never wish that on anyone. Damn, it's been over six years and this still chokes me up. Not that he died...but how he 'lived' those last several months. He fought for months/years...he really fought...in the end his death was a torturous ordeal that is unfathomable even though I witnessed much of it.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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07-10-2015, 10:43 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(07-10-2015 10:40 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 10:18 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  This whole theistic view of anti-death by dignity is based of course on their delusional view that god has a plan for each of us Rolleyes and if it is god's plan that you suffer for months, even years from a non curable disease...well then suck it up buttercup. How dare you disobey god by circumventing his plan with an easy out option?

I wish every single person who has that point of view gets the most painful road to death possible. When I watched my daughter whither and die slowly after battling a terminal disease, and the only option the doctors had was "humane dehydration"....which is anything but humane, you keep them drugged up and take away food and water......horrifying....think about watching your little girl twist around in agony. I would stroke her cheek with tears raining down my face and she would instinctively turn towards my hand and open her mouth...starving to death....only legal option...this is something NO ONE should experience. Hell I don't want to be the one on the bed in pain slowly dying either. If there is no prognosis for recovery, let me say my goodbyes, and give me a pill. My wife and I have agreed this is how we want to go in that situation. Whether it is legal or not. it SHOULD be legal.

It is like legalized abortion. Before it was legal people were going to hotels and having some wackjob go at them with a wire...and they would bleed to death, or have horrible complications....

Give people the legal ability to die with dignity so that they can receive the right meds for that option if they so choose.

Death with dignity is such an important concept for people to understand. Watching my big, strong father wither away, incontinent, and in ever-increasing pain was horrifying. His mind was clear (except for medication related glitches). He knew what was happening, he knew what was likely to happen next, he knew that everything he enjoyed was now a thing of the past. He would never walk again, he would never do anything he liked to do again. He was a shell of dying organs, laying in his own waste unable to do anything about it. Pain was beyond the point of being controllable. I would never wish that on anyone. Damn, it's been over six years and this still chokes me up. Not that he died...but how he 'lived' those last several months. He fought for months/years...he really fought...in the end his death was a torturous ordeal that is unfathomable even though I witnessed much of it.

Do you think he would have ended it, if he could? Or was he from that generation where "men were men?"

When my grandfather was in the cancer ward getting his chemo, he used to yell at the moaning, crying men in the rooms next door, "shut up you sissy."

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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07-10-2015, 10:45 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(07-10-2015 10:02 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 04:18 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  In some states pharmacists cannot refuse to dispense emergency contraceptive based on religious and moral objections. The way it worked is these drugs became legal and then soon following laws were passed forcing pharmacists to dispense these drugs. I imagine the same pattern will hold with these suicide drugs.

Now It is my position that a pharmacist who is an employee must fulfill their obligations of employment including dispensing emergency contraceptives if they are to have an expectation of keeping their job. However the state shouldn't force an owner/operator pharmacist to dispense such drugs if they have moral or religious objections.

I truly hope that I am wrong here. I truly hope the majority doesn't force its morality unto the minority. Just because you think suicide pills or emergency contraceptives are moral doesn't allow you to force your morality onto someone else. But sadly, that seems to be happening a lot in our society these days.

Here is the point dipshits like you dont understand...you have the freedom of choice to NOT decide to take the pain free way out as a person suffering from a terminal disease. What you shouldnt have is the ability to restrict someone with different views from having that choice..get it?

it is like homosexuality and same sex marriage. Don't want a dick in your mouth? good, then don't suck a dick. Don't want to marry a man? Good, then don't marry a man. You fuckwads act like because people are gaining rights to choose for themselves if they want to take the less painful road to die when suffering from a painful terminal disease is somehow robbing you of your made up religious rights and "morals".....you act like someone else having the right to love whom they want, have sex with whom they want, and marry whom they want somehow violates YOUR choices. it isnt like gay men are going to break down your door and shove a dick in your mouth because samesex marriage is now legal.....or some entity or another is going to break down your door and make you swallow a "suicide pill"....wake the fuck up.

"I truly hope the majority doesn't force its morality unto the minority."

They have been, it is called the christian majority...YOU are the establishment....and thankfully in a nation of laws, freedom and rights we are finally getting out from under your tyrannical rule based on your majority views centered on delusion, fiction and fairy tales.

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07-10-2015, 10:53 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(07-10-2015 10:40 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 10:18 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  This whole theistic view of anti-death by dignity is based of course on their delusional view that god has a plan for each of us Rolleyes and if it is god's plan that you suffer for months, even years from a non curable disease...well then suck it up buttercup. How dare you disobey god by circumventing his plan with an easy out option?

I wish every single person who has that point of view gets the most painful road to death possible. When I watched my daughter whither and die slowly after battling a terminal disease, and the only option the doctors had was "humane dehydration"....which is anything but humane, you keep them drugged up and take away food and water......horrifying....think about watching your little girl twist around in agony. I would stroke her cheek with tears raining down my face and she would instinctively turn towards my hand and open her mouth...starving to death....only legal option...this is something NO ONE should experience. Hell I don't want to be the one on the bed in pain slowly dying either. If there is no prognosis for recovery, let me say my goodbyes, and give me a pill. My wife and I have agreed this is how we want to go in that situation. Whether it is legal or not. it SHOULD be legal.

It is like legalized abortion. Before it was legal people were going to hotels and having some wackjob go at them with a wire...and they would bleed to death, or have horrible complications....

Give people the legal ability to die with dignity so that they can receive the right meds for that option if they so choose.

Death with dignity is such an important concept for people to understand. Watching my big, strong father wither away, incontinent, and in ever-increasing pain was horrifying. His mind was clear (except for medication related glitches). He knew what was happening, he knew what was likely to happen next, he knew that everything he enjoyed was now a thing of the past. He would never walk again, he would never do anything he liked to do again. He was a shell of dying organs, laying in his own waste unable to do anything about it. Pain was beyond the point of being controllable. I would never wish that on anyone. Damn, it's been over six years and this still chokes me up. Not that he died...but how he 'lived' those last several months. He fought for months/years...he really fought...in the end his death was a torturous ordeal that is unfathomable even though I witnessed much of it.

It is heart wrenching, and how someone cannot understand this basic and fundamental right should be not only legal, but socially acceptable is beyond me.


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"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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07-10-2015, 11:05 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(07-10-2015 10:43 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(07-10-2015 10:40 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Death with dignity is such an important concept for people to understand. Watching my big, strong father wither away, incontinent, and in ever-increasing pain was horrifying. His mind was clear (except for medication related glitches). He knew what was happening, he knew what was likely to happen next, he knew that everything he enjoyed was now a thing of the past. He would never walk again, he would never do anything he liked to do again. He was a shell of dying organs, laying in his own waste unable to do anything about it. Pain was beyond the point of being controllable. I would never wish that on anyone. Damn, it's been over six years and this still chokes me up. Not that he died...but how he 'lived' those last several months. He fought for months/years...he really fought...in the end his death was a torturous ordeal that is unfathomable even though I witnessed much of it.

Do you think he would have ended it, if he could? Or was he from that generation where "men were men?"

When my grandfather was in the cancer ward getting his chemo, he used to yell at the moaning, crying men in the rooms next door, "shut up you sissy."

He asked his friend to bring him the Oxy. It was his choice.

But, yes, he was from the men are men generation. He was also a medical man and knew that there was no coming back from where he was...no getting better and any intervention was only prolonging the agony, not only for him but also for his friends and family. As soon as my uncle arrived to see him and the rest of us had already visited, that was the time. He knew that my uncle would be there to support his lady friend until we could all get back. He asked for the pills.

He was an atheist from about age 40 so religion didn't come into play.

He went through cancer treatments, strokes, and a near fatal accident that halted the cancer treatments. He had lymphedema that rendered one arm useless, had to have a hip replaced due to the accident that resulted in a staph infection and a wound that wouldn't heal. By the time I last saw him, the only place I could touch him that didn't cause pain was on the top of his head.

The physical pain he endured that last two years was astonishing. But the lost of dignity was in some ways worse.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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