California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
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08-10-2015, 06:06 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2015 06:15 AM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(08-10-2015 06:00 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(08-10-2015 05:40 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  All this talk about embryos. In humans, the embryo stage is through week eight. After that, its called a fetus until birth.

I'm very concerned with the idea of terminating a pregnancy in the fetal stage. Just looking at the pictures of a fetus during this time makes it very clear that this is a human. We atheists, being more scientific minded, should realize this better than any other group. Unfortunately, I think most atheists have alligned themselves with left wing politics, which in turn has them towing the party line on abortion and ignoring the science.

We're better than that.


Yeah, because we cannot possibly be in favor of a woman's bodily autonomy and her right to choose without just being Leftist pawns. Rolleyes

You should hang out with Res Publica, sounds like you might enjoy the same flavor of Kool-Aid.

No thanks. I'm just pointing things out. 38 American states recognize a fetus as a murder victim (or manslaughter) if killed in the womb during a crime. That seems to be a huge contradiction in the laws. Federally, a fetus has that protection in all 50 states.

Mom kills fetus at abortion clinic = not murder
Dad punches pregnant mom, killing fetus = murder

I'm not against abortion. I just think it needs to be limited to the embryonic stage. If a fetus can be "murdered" by a criminal, it's murder any way you look at it.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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08-10-2015, 06:15 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(08-10-2015 06:06 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(08-10-2015 06:00 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Yeah, because we cannot possibly be in favor of a woman's bodily autonomy and her right to choose without just being Leftist pawns. Rolleyes

You should hang out with Res Publica, sounds like you might enjoy the same flavor of Kool-Aid.

No thanks. I'm just pointing things out. 38 American states recognize a fetus as a murder victim (or manslaughter) if killed in the womb during a crime. That seems to be a huge contradiction in the laws. Federally, a fetus has that protection in all 50 states.

Mom kills fetus at abortion clinic = not murder
Dad punches pregnant mom, killing fetus = murder


Maybe because getting punched or shot in the stomach isn't the woman's choice, seeing as how the fetus is entirely unable to form or express any will?

Maybe because legislators and the justice system don't care about contradictions and hypocrisy?

Hell if I know or have a definitive answer, but those laws don't change my stance or the reasons why I have it.

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08-10-2015, 06:26 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(08-10-2015 05:40 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Just looking at the pictures of a fetus during this time makes it very clear that this is a human.

Rolleyes Yes because anything that looks like a human *is* a human.

The very *idea* that a bunch of unaware cells might be terminated before being pushed out of a vagina makes you faint. Of course if you push it out a vagina, wait for it to grow up and *then* shoot it, then *that's* perfectly fine.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-10-2015, 06:28 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(08-10-2015 06:06 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(08-10-2015 06:00 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Yeah, because we cannot possibly be in favor of a woman's bodily autonomy and her right to choose without just being Leftist pawns. Rolleyes

You should hang out with Res Publica, sounds like you might enjoy the same flavor of Kool-Aid.

No thanks. I'm just pointing things out. 38 American states recognize a fetus as a murder victim (or manslaughter) if killed in the womb during a crime. That seems to be a huge contradiction in the laws. Federally, a fetus has that protection in all 50 states.

Mom kills fetus at abortion clinic = not murder
Dad punches pregnant mom, killing fetus = murder

I'm not against abortion. I just think it needs to be limited to the embryonic stage. If a fetus can be "murdered" by a criminal, it's murder any way you look at it.

Typically a murder of a fetus charge is based on the potential viability outside of the womb. Your argument that it is a fetus at eight weeks doesn't hold to that.

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08-10-2015, 06:41 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(08-10-2015 06:28 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(08-10-2015 06:06 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  No thanks. I'm just pointing things out. 38 American states recognize a fetus as a murder victim (or manslaughter) if killed in the womb during a crime. That seems to be a huge contradiction in the laws. Federally, a fetus has that protection in all 50 states.

Mom kills fetus at abortion clinic = not murder
Dad punches pregnant mom, killing fetus = murder

I'm not against abortion. I just think it needs to be limited to the embryonic stage. If a fetus can be "murdered" by a criminal, it's murder any way you look at it.

Typically a murder of a fetus charge is based on the potential viability outside of the womb. Your argument that it is a fetus at eight weeks doesn't hold to that.

A few states have the law written as you described. However most states, and federal law are written for any stage of development.

Federal law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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08-10-2015, 09:54 AM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2015 09:58 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(08-10-2015 06:28 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Typically a murder of a fetus charge is based on the potential viability outside of the womb. Your argument that it is a fetus at eight weeks doesn't hold to that.

It is murder because it is an unlawful killing of a human being. Remember, murder is a legal term not a moral one. Killing via emergency contraception is not murder because the killing of the human being is permitted by law. It is still killing a human being and there is nothing wrong with holding the position that one should never voluntarily participate in the killing of another human being. The same conscious objection waivers given to providers in assisted suicide should also be given to pharmacists but they are not because when it comes to abortion, the left wants to force its morality unto everyone else.
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08-10-2015, 10:31 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
I'm sure you are not going to let any actual facts get in the way of your argument regarding the various "morning after" pills, but, just for fuck's sake, I'm going to throw some pixie dust into this anyway.

Morning-After Pills Don't Cause Abortions

Btw, your statement that the left is forcing its morality on everyone, implying that the right is just going with a "live and let live" attitude when it comes to values and morals, is absolutely fucking hilarious. You should do stand-up with that material.

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When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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08-10-2015, 10:37 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(08-10-2015 12:38 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  It is not unreasonable for a pharmacist to hold this moral and shouldn't be forced by law to violate it as they are required in the case of dispensing emergency contraception.

If you're talking about Plan B it's OTC. A drugstore can choose to stock it or not. There's no law saying they have to.

#sigh
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08-10-2015, 10:39 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
Stop throwing facts out! It confuses him.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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08-10-2015, 10:42 AM
RE: California Governor Signs Assisted Suicide Bill Into Law
(08-10-2015 12:31 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  People like Dom and Anjele and others can proclaim all they want that an embryo is not a human being, but their proclamations will not change the fact that an embryo is a human being at an early stage of development. Like every other living things, humans have a life cycle and the embryonic stage is included in it. You learn this in junior high.

Is a tadpole a frog? Is a caterpillar a butterfly? Potentiality is not actuality.

Here is a picture of a human embryo:

[Image: human-fetal-development-conception-to-bi...1222511541]

That is clearly not a human. That is clearly a potential human.

You're being deliberately obtuse. At least, I hope it's deliberate. I'd suggest you learn a little about the terminology and concepts being discussed here. When you make statements like "an embryo is a human", you do yourself a disservice.
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