Calling out Islam
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13-09-2012, 07:27 PM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2012 07:40 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Calling out Islam
(13-09-2012 07:14 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Yea I'm with Matt on this one.
You'll are quick to condemn but don't see the whole picture. You see one side of the story.

And it's not a matter of "do this and all will be solved", nobody has the answers to solve these problems but what we do know is that you can't just kill them all off.

Oh, you mean like you see both sides when you use the word "nigger" or when you condemn those who disagree with your capitalist views?

Additionally, just tell me how I am judging them too quickly or too irrationally? It has taken tens of thousands of lives over the course of 20 years for me to realize just how fucked up the religion is.

You think it is okay to use instances of injustice that Christianity has forced upon us, but you don't want to call the Muslims out on it? We all laugh and point out the Crusades, Inquisition, Thirty Years War, etc, but you guys don't want to blame those responsible today?

And Seasbury is right. Who said anything about killing anyone off?

Matt's full of his theist-fettish shit as always. Agnostic my ass.

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13-09-2012, 07:38 PM
RE: Calling out Islam
Hahahaha

Why does everybody assume we want to kill people?

Herp derp... Saying bad things about islam means those say bad things want to kill muslims. Makes perfect sense!

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13-09-2012, 07:51 PM
RE: Calling out Islam
(13-09-2012 07:38 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Hahahaha

Why does everybody assume we want to kill people?

Herp derp... Saying bad things about islam means those say bad things want to kill muslims. Makes perfect sense!

In my opinion it is the same as the Christian: "Ah, we are being oppressed!" card.

Christianity
2.4 billion
34%

Islam
1.65 billion
24%

Non-religious
1.12 billion
16%

Yeah? Erly?

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13-09-2012, 10:57 PM
RE: Calling out Islam
Hey, Earmuffs.

Word.

Hey, Seasbury.

Ask yourself this. Do you truly see a clear delineation between the extremists you hate and the Islamic world? If you can't tell the difference, then that's a road block, wouldn't you say?

Where does your hate end? Where does your love begin? Can you say in all honesty that you have any love?

The solution isn't easy and I certainly don't have one of those utterly fictional "road maps to peace". But like I said, it involves confronting the problem. You can't know what the solution is until you confront and understand the problem. Withdrawing from it solves nothing. If anything, it makes it worse.

Watch the Desmond Tutu video.

There must have been a point during the slavery era of the US where neither blacks nor whites could ever contemplate the notion of living together as equals. But, by and large, they've come a long way.

Conflict is conflict. It's always the same process. The only thing that ever differs is 1 - who are the players and 2 - what's at stake? There is a conflict occurring here. It needs to be resolved. If it isn't resolved, it will continue, as I said before, until one side is destroyed; or until everything of value to both sides is destroyed. Conflicts are, by their very nature, difficult to resolve. If they weren't, we'd have peace on earth and good will to all men. But if we decide against working diligently to resolve the conflict just because we think it's hard, or because we can't let go of our hate for the Other, or because we're so cynical we don't believe we can find a partner, then we make the choice for more of the same. The cycle must be broken.

And yeah, breaking that cycle is hard. I know not where is that spoonful of sugar that will make that medicine go down easier.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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13-09-2012, 10:57 PM
RE: Calling out Islam
(13-09-2012 08:04 AM)Seasbury Wrote:  Muslims could occupy Venus...might do them some good...lol

No, I say give them some fresh air on Uranus. Or better yet build a prison in orbit around Earth and walk them all out the airlock one at a time. That would be tax dollars well spent.
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14-09-2012, 07:13 AM
RE: Calling out Islam
(13-09-2012 06:37 PM)Seasbury Wrote:  
(13-09-2012 05:46 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Tell me how the Islamic world will permit any of the above.

Yeah, I'd like to know - whatchya got there Matt?

I don't disagree with what you wrote, but I think you're way off - where are you placing the onus?

OK Matt -- I think I see where you're coming from. You're putting words in my mouth that I never said and being preachy without addressing the questions. Not that you have to -- cool, cool, everyone gets a soapbox.

I wasn't suggesting solutions, I was opening a discussion and you assumed that my position is driven by hate and Muffs read in to what I wrote that we should kill all Muslims -- weird - but hey, whatever Thumbsup

(13-09-2012 10:57 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Seasbury.

Ask yourself this. Do you truly see a clear delineation between the extremists you hate [where did I say I hate anyone? presumptuous] and the Islamic world? If you can't tell the difference, then that's a road block, wouldn't you say?

Where does your hate end? Where does your love begin? Can you say in all honesty that you have any love?

What an amazingly bizarre line of questions! If I were Islamic I might be so offended I'd kill some one...lol (take a joke and get a sense of humor) - my love and empathy is directed toward innocents that are killed by flash mob violence by people offended by a drawing or a poorly made propaganda video, but hey, I'll throw it back to you, knowing full well this will just be another opportunity to put you on a soapbox and evade the question -- where does your identification with the mob end and your understanding of peaceful solutions begin? Instead of making it about me -- why don't you put the focus on yourself and offer up your ideals instead of ripping me for opening a conversation? Just saying...

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14-09-2012, 11:54 AM
RE: Calling out Islam
I think Ghost hates Sam Harris because sam is of jewish decent, and you know how well jews and muslims get together.

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14-09-2012, 11:58 AM
RE: Calling out Islam
Holy fuck, Seasbury.

You are not the man I thought you were.

Rip on you? How do you get that? I said, explicitly, that I thought that your question was profound. I told you that I was willing to open up, under fear of attack THAT HAPPENED EXACTLY AS I PREDICTED, and I asked you really heartfelt questions. I was asking you to ask yourself a question, I wasn't fucking condemning you about anything.

I didn't evade the question. I told you, straight up, I don't have the answer. So if you want to dismiss everything I said because I don't have a pre-packaged answer for you, fine, but don't fucking come at me with this I evaded the question bullshit.

And it's not like I said nothing. I said that solving the issue involves confronting what has happened. I offered the example of famous men of peace. I offered an Obama speech in which he calls for the exact thing I'm talking about. I offered the example of South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I talked about the nature of conflict and conflict resolution. I spoke directly to your question but according to you all I did was rip on you and preach?

Quote:...where does your identification with the mob end and your understanding of peaceful solutions begin?

I'd answer this question but I don't understand the comparison you're trying to make.

Quote:[where did I say I hate anyone? presumptuous]

Really?

Seasbury Wrote:I hated extremists that want nothing more than kill Americans.

The next time you neg rep someone for doing something, make fucking sure they fucking did it first.

Goodbye.
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14-09-2012, 12:33 PM
RE: Calling out Islam
(13-09-2012 02:30 PM)Seasbury Wrote:  
(13-09-2012 02:26 PM)morondog Wrote:  But their *leaders* need to condemn this. Frequently the leaders essentially say "well, the bastards *were* asking for it. I mean seriously, drawing Mohammed???"

Yeah, I'm with MD on this - until/unless the Islamic leadership issues fatwas on violence, "instigated" or not, it perpetuates the perception that this is one f'ed up religion that promotes/encourages violent reaction to any perceived slight to their prophet/god figure.
Not condemning it is just not condemning it. That's all. If you think that amounts to agreeing with it, you should realize that you are putting that interpretation on it. There are many possible explanations for why the leaders don't condemn it. The extremists are obviously prone to violence - bombing, beheading, torturing, etc. - so it's quite plausible that the good Muslims don't condemn the extremists simply out of fear. It's easy for us way across the ocean protected by our military and surveillance systems to say "they should speak up and condemn it". I think we ought to try harder to put ourselves in their shoes. Furthermore, I've had a similar discussion on another board a long time ago and I remember finding instances where Muslims have spoken up and condemned the extremist actions.

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14-09-2012, 12:38 PM
RE: Calling out Islam
Oh Ghost calm down. It is not a big deal. We are simply opposites.




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