Calvin's Bizarre Doctrine.
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05-12-2011, 11:47 PM (This post was last modified: 05-12-2011 11:50 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Calvin's Bizarre Doctrine.
(05-12-2011 11:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(05-12-2011 11:03 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(05-12-2011 10:26 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Where does someone like me fit into your thinking? I was born again at the age of 6 with many a rededication of my life to Christ and with many a confession with my mouth and a belief in my heart that Jesus was Lord. I spent 40+ years as a True Believer. A Bible-Believing Christian and a defender of the faith.

In all frankness, you were never elect.

Erxomai and I ain't gonna roll over on your "No True Christian" bullshit. The Holy Spiirt not only embodied us, it fulfilled us, and we rejected it as a fairy tale. The Holy Spirit would never have entered us if we were not elect.

Who said it was the Holy Spirit? We are warned that false prophets will even cast out demons as a guise. Now, I'm not saying that Erxomai is a false prophet (as it's just a generalized example), but I am saying that he did not have the Holy Spirit nor did you.*

*Again, this is all based on my beliefs according to how I understand God. I'm being very frank and open with you two because I believe that you understand me enough to not get offended at what I say.
(05-12-2011 11:36 PM)morondog Wrote:  @KingsChosen: Gee... you're such a rational guy yet you feel comfortable with this God who's not good, even by human standards. I mean, I guess it's nice being elected and all... I'd really struggle with it myself though. Each to his own I guess.

Again, appreciate that Smile

And, my comfort with it comes from a liberation that I know an omnipotent, omniscience, and omnipresent God has planned my life from the beginning, and that I exist according to His purpose.

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06-12-2011, 12:08 AM
RE: Calvin's Bizarre Doctrine.
Erxomai.....

This has been hashed out so many times... It reminds me of this....

Thread... Was-banned-for-asking - page=4 - post #37

This, I think was my very first post after my intro.....
Ah, the good old days. Duking it out with old ST. There's a lot of this stuff on the forum and it's very entertaining.

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06-12-2011, 12:17 AM
RE: Calvin's Bizarre Doctrine.
(06-12-2011 12:08 AM)defacto7 Wrote:  Erxomai.....

This has been hashed out so many times... It reminds me of this....

Thread... Was-banned-for-asking - page=4 - post #37

This, I think was my very first post after my intro.....
Ah, the good old days. Duking it out with old ST. There's a lot of this stuff on the forum and it's very entertaining.

Now I'm curious as to what went down.

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06-12-2011, 12:29 AM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2011 12:33 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Calvin's Bizarre Doctrine.
(05-12-2011 11:47 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(05-12-2011 11:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(05-12-2011 11:03 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(05-12-2011 10:26 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Where does someone like me fit into your thinking? I was born again at the age of 6 with many a rededication of my life to Christ and with many a confession with my mouth and a belief in my heart that Jesus was Lord. I spent 40+ years as a True Believer. A Bible-Believing Christian and a defender of the faith.

In all frankness, you were never elect.

Erxomai and I ain't gonna roll over on your "No True Christian" bullshit. The Holy Spiirt not only embodied us, it fulfilled us, and we rejected it as a fairy tale. The Holy Spirit would never have entered us if we were not elect.

Who said it was the Holy Spirit? We are warned that false prophets will even cast out demons as a guise.

So in order to refute the "No True Scotsman" aspect of your argument, you reinforce and emphasize the "No True Scotsman" points of your argument. Do you find this tactic works elsewhere? Ain't gonna fly here. ... In all frankness brother, until you give up all this jibber jabber you can never be elect.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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06-12-2011, 12:51 AM (This post was last modified: 06-12-2011 01:01 AM by Erxomai.)
RE: Calvin's Bizarre Doctrine.
(05-12-2011 11:47 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(05-12-2011 11:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(05-12-2011 11:03 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(05-12-2011 10:26 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Where does someone like me fit into your thinking? I was born again at the age of 6 with many a rededication of my life to Christ and with many a confession with my mouth and a belief in my heart that Jesus was Lord. I spent 40+ years as a True Believer. A Bible-Believing Christian and a defender of the faith.

In all frankness, you were never elect.

Erxomai and I ain't gonna roll over on your "No True Christian" bullshit. The Holy Spiirt not only embodied us, it fulfilled us, and we rejected it as a fairy tale. The Holy Spirit would never have entered us if we were not elect.

Who said it was the Holy Spirit? We are warned that false prophets will even cast out demons as a guise. Now, I'm not saying that Erxomai is a false prophet (as it's just a generalized example), but I am saying that he did not have the Holy Spirit nor did you.*

*Again, this is all based on my beliefs according to how I understand God. I'm being very frank and open with you two because I believe that you understand me enough to not get offended at what I say.

What's funny is I was offended at what you said...then I remembered I don't believe in the Holy Spirit or election, so why the hell should I care? (Pun of course intended, duh).

The irony to your response is (besides the fact a 5 pt Calvinist must answer the way you did), that if I had posed that question to you last year at this time, you would have to answer that I am one of the elect and the Holy Spirit dwells in me. And I had plenty of spiritual fruit to show it. For how shall you know someone is saved? By their fruit. And brother, after a lifetime spent leading people to Christ, I bore me some fruit. Tongue
Or, what if next time this year I'm somehow convinced that I was wrong yet again and the God of the Bible does exist. Am I elect again?
Or, what if I had died in that car crash 10 years ago? Would I be in hell now because even though I thought I was elect I apparently was just fooling myself?
I'm starting to get dizzy with all the implications!

Still, I know your stock answer should be: it's not up to you to know these things of who is saved and who is not and because God is sovereign you can live with people going to hell over what humans would call an arbitrary choice. I found I could no longer live with that theology.

(06-12-2011 12:08 AM)defacto7 Wrote:  Erxomai.....

This has been hashed out so many times... It reminds me of this....

Thread... Was-banned-for-asking - page=4 - post #37

This, I think was my very first post after my intro.....
Ah, the good old days. Duking it out with old ST. There's a lot of this stuff on the forum and it's very entertaining.

I don't know how much duking I'm doing with KC. The thing is, if I were still a pastor I'd be duking him big time because Calvinism ceased to be funny to me about 10 or 15 years ago. Now I don't care. I just wondered what his thoughts on my chances for re-election were.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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06-12-2011, 01:14 AM
RE: Calvin's Bizarre Doctrine.
(06-12-2011 12:51 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  The thing is, if I were still a pastor I'd be duking him big time because Calvinism ceased to be funny to me about 10 or 15 years ago. Now I don't care.

I'm very interested in seeing a serious Hellbound Preacher take down or finishing move. ... Just for future reference, especially if preacher just don't give a shit.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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06-12-2011, 01:18 AM
RE: Calvin's Bizarre Doctrine.
(06-12-2011 01:14 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(06-12-2011 12:51 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  The thing is, if I were still a pastor I'd be duking him big time because Calvinism ceased to be funny to me about 10 or 15 years ago. Now I don't care.

I'm very interested in seeing a serious Hellbound Preacher take down or finishing move. ... Just for future reference, especially if preacher just don't give a shit.

I did play a lot of OG Mortal Kombat back in the day.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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06-12-2011, 08:41 AM
RE: Calvin's Bizarre Doctrine.
(06-12-2011 12:29 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So in order to refute the "No True Scotsman" aspect of your argument, you reinforce and emphasize the "No True Scotsman" points of your argument. Do you find this tactic works elsewhere? Ain't gonna fly here. ... In all frankness brother, until you give up all this jibber jabber you can never be elect.

No. I'm reinforcing my argument with the Bible, which is an authority in this discussion.

Quote:What's funny is I was offended at what you said...then I remembered I don't believe in the Holy Spirit or election, so why the hell should I care? (Pun of course intended, duh).

The irony to your response is (besides the fact a 5 pt Calvinist must answer the way you did), that if I had posed that question to you last year at this time, you would have to answer that I am one of the elect and the Holy Spirit dwells in me. And I had plenty of spiritual fruit to show it. For how shall you know someone is saved? By their fruit. And brother, after a lifetime spent leading people to Christ, I bore me some fruit. Tongue
Or, what if next time this year I'm somehow convinced that I was wrong yet again and the God of the Bible does exist. Am I elect again?
Or, what if I had died in that car crash 10 years ago? Would I be in hell now because even though I thought I was elect I apparently was just fooling myself?
I'm starting to get dizzy with all the implications!

Still, I know your stock answer should be: it's not up to you to know these things of who is saved and who is not and because God is sovereign you can live with people going to hell over what humans would call an arbitrary choice. I found I could no longer live with that theology.

The time frame doesn't matter. Your past Christian activities don't matter because they were hollow (never being elect). A falling away from God represents actions of a non-elect. If an all powerful God can lose one of His own, then He is not all powerful and not worthy to be worshiped.

Quote:I just wondered what his thoughts on my chances for re-election were.

There is no reelection. You are either elect or not.

Now, I'm going to stop discussing this. It's obvious that I've gone too far (but I've been honest), and that I'm really making people disgusted and offended by my beliefs. This was never my intention, and I would never maliciously or intentionally offend anyone.

Sorry Erxomai.

On a side note, MK9 is awesome. I was pretty competitive online; however, I stopped playing back in August.

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06-12-2011, 08:44 AM
RE: Calvin's Bizarre Doctrine.
(06-12-2011 08:41 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(06-12-2011 12:29 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So in order to refute the "No True Scotsman" aspect of your argument, you reinforce and emphasize the "No True Scotsman" points of your argument. Do you find this tactic works elsewhere? Ain't gonna fly here. ... In all frankness brother, until you give up all this jibber jabber you can never be elect.

No. I'm reinforcing my argument with the Bible, which is an authority in this discussion.

Using the Bible as an authoritative reference won't fly here, either.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-12-2011, 08:45 AM
RE: Calvin's Bizarre Doctrine.
(06-12-2011 08:44 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-12-2011 08:41 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(06-12-2011 12:29 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So in order to refute the "No True Scotsman" aspect of your argument, you reinforce and emphasize the "No True Scotsman" points of your argument. Do you find this tactic works elsewhere? Ain't gonna fly here. ... In all frankness brother, until you give up all this jibber jabber you can never be elect.

No. I'm reinforcing my argument with the Bible, which is an authority in this discussion.

Using the Bible as an authoritative reference won't fly here, either.

When talking about a Christian doctrine? How come?

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