Calvinism/Arminanism
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08-10-2013, 11:16 PM
Calvinism/Arminanism
I'm still friends with my old youth pastor on Facebook, and he posted a status today that can be summed up by saying: "Jesus was an Arminianist, and Paul was a Calvanist, and both ways of thinking are true"

Then there were 20+ posts debating the topic even though the two views are irreconcilable.

Then a non-religious guy popped into the conversation and asked how god could even send people to hell in the first place/how can finite creatures committing finite crimes be eternally tortured. And how most people would therefor be selected for unbelief based on the family/region they were born into. And my old youth pastor tentatively replied with "How can the created have any meaningful input/discussion with the Creator?"

For any ex-theists like myself, how did you deal with this Calvanist/Arminianist dilemma when you were a Christian? And if any theists read this, how do you reconcile it?

So frustrating. No
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09-10-2013, 01:19 AM
RE: Calvinism/Arminanism
(08-10-2013 11:16 PM)Shawnzy Wrote:  For any ex-theists like myself, how did you deal with this Calvanist/Arminianist dilemma when you were a Christian?

By being unaware of it Tongue Only encountered it here on TTA for the first time after having been an atheist. Before that I thought all Christians were of the free will camp. Actually here in Southern Africa I think most churches preach a bit of a mix - I've subsequently heard the terms bandied about by my Christian friends, but IIRC all the sermons I listened to (and signally failed to appreciate) went something like "God loves you and wants you to do the right thing with your free will." OK fine and dandy. Followed by "God is omnipotent, he can do anything!" Followed by "Time and space mean nothing to Our Lord! So he knows whatcha gonna do with your free will before you do it. It's all part of his awesome plan."

Never really made much sense to me if I stopped to think about it, but then, I grew up listening to this stuff with half an ear, so I was kinda used to getting this fuzzy feel good drivel dished up at sermons... I mean, the basic idea is to reassure you that Sky Daddy knows wtf he's doing, even in the face of things like death and so forth. So when senseless stuff happens they emphasize the "God's awesome plan" side and when things are going well and life is fine and dandy they emphasize the "God loves you and wants you to be free" side...
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09-10-2013, 04:44 AM
RE: Calvinism/Arminanism
I say we consult the elves on this. They are wise. Yes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-10-2013, 07:29 AM
RE: Calvinism/Arminanism
(09-10-2013 04:44 AM)Chas Wrote:  I say we consult the elves on this. They are wise. Yes

I wanted to ask absols but she's banned.Drinking Beverage

I turned to Markey Mark but he's banned!Drinking Beverage

Egor, oh Egor, wherefore art thou?Weeping

I need the current Mafia game to end, too much Shakespeare in the air.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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09-10-2013, 07:38 AM
RE: Calvinism/Arminanism
(09-10-2013 07:29 AM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 04:44 AM)Chas Wrote:  I say we consult the elves on this. They are wise. Yes

I wanted to ask absols but she's banned.Drinking Beverage

I turned to Markey Mark but he's banned!Drinking Beverage

Egor, oh Egor, wherefore art thou?Weeping

I need the current Mafia game to end, too much Shakespeare in the air.

I have great comfort from this fellow: methinks he
hath no drowning mark upon him; his complexion is
perfect gallows.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-10-2013, 07:44 AM
RE: Calvinism/Arminanism
(09-10-2013 07:29 AM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 04:44 AM)Chas Wrote:  I say we consult the elves on this. They are wise. Yes

I wanted to ask absols but she's banned.Drinking Beverage

I turned to Markey Mark but he's banned!Drinking Beverage

Egor, oh Egor, wherefore art thou?Weeping

I need the current Mafia game to end, too much Shakespeare in the air.

Egor, oh Egor, wherefore art thou?
Seems he deleted all references to Veridicanism from YouTube.
His new beligion is "Toastmasters".
They gave him an award for his talk on Astrology. Weeping
You can google him.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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09-10-2013, 09:02 AM
RE: Calvinism/Arminanism
(09-10-2013 07:44 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 07:29 AM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  I wanted to ask absols but she's banned.Drinking Beverage

I turned to Markey Mark but he's banned!Drinking Beverage

Egor, oh Egor, wherefore art thou?Weeping

I need the current Mafia game to end, too much Shakespeare in the air.

Egor, oh Egor, wherefore art thou?
Seems he deleted all references to Veridicanism from YouTube.
His new beligion is "Toastmasters".
They gave him an award for his talk on Astrology. Weeping
You can google him.

That's Mr. President Gordon of some toastmasters chapter. I suspect there will be a Nixon reenactment. Consider

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09-10-2013, 10:03 AM
RE: Calvinism/Arminanism
(09-10-2013 09:02 AM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  
(09-10-2013 07:44 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Egor, oh Egor, wherefore art thou?
Seems he deleted all references to Veridicanism from YouTube.
His new beligion is "Toastmasters".
They gave him an award for his talk on Astrology. Weeping
You can google him.

That's Mr. President Gordon of some toastmasters chapter. I suspect there will be a Nixon reenactment. Consider

I wonder if he'd sell me his used paramecium lab research equipment, fer when I start my beligion.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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