Calvinism and Abortion.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
23-11-2013, 04:43 PM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2013 04:46 PM by Mr Woof.)
Calvinism and Abortion.
In the main it is Christian people, particularly Catholics, who oppose abortion.Seen as the killing of a child, the opportunities to live and find God is probably a major consideration,along perhaps with what is seen as callousness in general which would also impact on the perpetrator.
It is interesting that in the case of rape abortion is seen as more acceptable a notion that seems to fly in the face of the foetus, who was not responsible for the rape.

As Christianity posits an eternal life for some people living and being tested may come across as a prerequisite to a Heavenly abode down the track, for individuals of any age, questionably even foetuses. One would think however that a fair god would somehow ensure that all of his creations be given a chance to experience adequately, in order to be evaluated, in any sane and just manner.

It would seem that we need not worry about this if we choose the bizarre teachings of Augustine,Luther, Calvin et al who held that God has already pre destined who will go to Heaven or Hell, based on the fall of Adam, and indelible sin inherent in all mankind. In other words, all living people, over all generations, were destined to live their lives to end up in Hell, save for the few already seemingly, and capriciously, chosen. In this Calvinistic scenario the crucifixion of Jesus served simply as a ritualistic event for those already saved, which sounds pretty sick.

So! As far as the unborn goes, from a Calvinistic perspective, foetuses would have been already chosen for Hell or Heaven pre conception and abortion could even be seen (from Calvin'
s point of view) as of no import, as God would have ensured that those aborted were fodder for Hell anyway. If this all sounds ridiculous, blame the perpetrators.

Is it any wonder people become atheists
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like Mr Woof's post
23-11-2013, 09:39 PM
RE: Calvinism and Abortion.
Predestination makes choices irrelevant. If destiny is predetermined, then everyone who commits a terrible sin would never not have sinned. If they make the choice not to sin, then it was God's plan for them not to sin all along, meaning they never had a choice. The choice is an illusion, because they would never have done anything else.

Never mind abortion, we could murder and eat anyone we meet and it wouldn't change a thing for us or them.

Pass the BBQ sauce!

If something can be destroyed by the truth, it might be worth destroying.

[Image: ZcC2kGl.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Elesjei's post
23-11-2013, 09:56 PM
RE: Calvinism and Abortion.
Yes that is right, not only abortion, but every evil secular act is seen as just part of the horrendous conditions to be suffered by the many on earth, and then later in Hell, based on god's capricious and autocratic nature.
The only justification Calvinists appear to give is based on right by might.
In no way is God's alleged perfect system questioned, other than to say it is beyond the grasp of the unchosen ones....
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Mr Woof's post
24-11-2013, 10:14 AM
RE: Calvinism and Abortion.
See the problem with abortion is that people may take it for granted but at the same time it is necessary on many occasions so i can't really tell anything on this sensitive topic,its better to just leave the parents decide properly on whether abortion is necessary or not.

I just hate these idiotic tools online who just go around like attention whores advocating sensitive topics like these to them i say "You're no one to discuss about other people's goddamn fetuses!".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-01-2014, 04:39 PM
RE: Calvinism and Abortion.
The whole Calvinism/Predestination nonsense was a MAJOR problem for me. I was forced to find a worldview which was more pro-life than anything from the bible or the "church fathers". I am amazed at how many options there are.

My current project is explaining why many things in this world are irrelevant to me.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-03-2014, 03:58 PM
RE: Calvinism and Abortion.
(24-11-2013 10:14 AM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  See the problem with abortion is that people may take it for granted but at the same time it is necessary on many occasions so i can't really tell anything on this sensitive topic,its better to just leave the parents decide properly on whether abortion is necessary or not.

I just hate these idiotic tools online who just go around like attention whores advocating sensitive topics like these to them i say "You're no one to discuss about other people's goddamn fetuses!".

What would you say to parents who force their pregnant teenage daughter into having an abortion when the daughter does not want to abort?

My current project is explaining why many things in this world are irrelevant to me.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-03-2014, 08:28 PM
RE: Calvinism and Abortion.
What's Calvinist's stance on killing grown up men, for example crusaders killing arabian heretics in the Middle Ages ?

no abortion or no God-given right to kill heretics, let them choose.

Want something? Then do something.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
30-03-2014, 10:12 PM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2014 11:43 PM by Pickup_shonuff.)
RE: Calvinism and Abortion.
Forget religion for a minute. Can anyone explain to me what moral responsiblity is if all our actions are determined by prior causes that extend beyond our control? I can understand roughly how compatiblists might sketch a coherent relationship between the two... but hard determinists like Sam Harris baffle me.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-04-2014, 07:53 AM
RE: Calvinism and Abortion.
(23-11-2013 09:39 PM)Elesjei Wrote:  Predestination makes choices irrelevant. If destiny is predetermined, then everyone who commits a terrible sin would never not have sinned. If they make the choice not to sin, then it was God's plan for them not to sin all along, meaning they never had a choice. The choice is an illusion, because they would never have done anything else.

Where predestination gets creepy in religion isn't the part where your choices are meaningless; it's the part where you're still judged on them, regardless.

"Rob, I set the universe up as an elaborate Rube Goldberg, so that 14 billion years later, you would do XYZ. Now, I also said that XYZ was bad, so now I'm going to punish you."

Awesome.


(30-03-2014 10:12 PM)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:  Forget religion for a minute. Can anyone explain to me what moral responsiblity is if all our actions are determined by prior causes that extend beyond our control? I can understand roughly how compatiblists might sketch a coherent relationship between the two... but hard determinists like Sam Harris baffle me.

Whether or not we're predestined to follow a particular course of actions, it is observably true that setting up systems of punishment or reward does have an effect on human behavior. Sure, we would have been predestined to set up that system and to set it up in a certain way, but it does have an effect.

So, while that in and of itself doesn't make murder wrong, if we "decide" we don't want to worry about being killed all the time, we can criminalize murder to help reduce it. So, this answer isn't an answer of morality, but rather one of pragmatism.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes RobbyPants's post
01-04-2014, 04:25 PM
RE: Calvinism and Abortion.
(30-03-2014 10:12 PM)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:  Forget religion for a minute. Can anyone explain to me what moral responsiblity is if all our actions are determined by prior causes that extend beyond our control? I can understand roughly how compatiblists might sketch a coherent relationship between the two... but hard determinists like Sam Harris baffle me.

What you refer to is hard line determinism, a position that can be taken to ridiculous extremes.
If our behaviour was entirely governed by genetic factors then it might be argued that guilt of any perceived violation is purely a chance phenomenon.
Hard line determinism can be used as a 'cop out' by suggesting that limited free will is not available, even where strong materialistic pre dispositions actually exist.
Our ability to reason (even intuit) and empathise, may be seen as based on genetic materialism and Darwinian theory entirely, a fact that may well ignore other less favourable and difficult considerations. Such a paradigm is not free from difficulties...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: