Can God create a six sided pentagon?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
28-10-2012, 11:18 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2012 01:32 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Can God create a six sided pentagon?
(28-10-2012 10:56 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  I really thought he was talking about the pentagram and the idea that god cannot do that which is against him self, but after looking at his site he really meant the shape. Sad

It's not about "against himself". It's "for himself".
It's about the Reality it created, (and linguistic integrity).

A six sided pentagram, (whatever that would be), would be the SAME THING, not two different things. A unity. In the world of the questioner, if the god was omnipotent and *wanted* to create two different things, it would not have *named* them the same. In creating two things, it was omnipotent in making the difference. It if *wanted* to make them the same it would not have made a difference, then conflated the ideas, it would simply have made nothing at all, (as that's more *efficient*). It's about "naming", and HUMAN language. It's not about god(s).
(The god is also omniscient. It would have known what it intended to do, and not do.)

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
29-10-2012, 12:48 AM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2012 02:10 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Can God create a six sided pentagon?
(24-10-2012 04:01 PM)Theist_Typing Wrote:  So if He made a pentagon that had six sides it would be a hexagon. .......
You will find sometimes 5 or 10 different definitions listed beside a word. Definitions often vary between Webster, American Heritage, and Funk & Wagnall’s dictionaries. There are billions of words written every year arguing over the definitions of socialism, communism, fascism, and capitalism. Still the meanings are confusing.

Getting past the words, to clearly see the concept - that's real understanding.

The premise is false. Words have meanings. They do not mean exactly the same things, but that does not they mean completely different things. They have content. The fact that words can have different meanings does not mean they mean something "other" or *completely* different. The ONLY reason you "understand" something is because you categorize things with words and language. There is no dualism of "understanding vs *real* understanding. 5-10 definitions is irrelevant. The word means what it means to YOU. Confusing to you maybe.

The god can make any sided figure it wants. He knows what HE calls it, and what he wants to make. What WE call it is another matter. If we make a mistake and call it something wrong WE are making the error, not the god. We have learned what "pentagon" means, and it does not mean 6 sided. Therefore if WE call it something wrong, it's WE that make the error, not the god.

Stick THAT up your Funk and Wagnall's.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
29-10-2012, 01:23 AM
RE: Can God create a six sided pentagon?
(28-10-2012 11:18 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(28-10-2012 10:56 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  I really thought he was talking about the pentagram and the idea that god cannot do that which is against him self, but after looking at his site he really meant the shape. Sad

It's not about "against himself".
It's about the Reality it created, (and linguistic integrity).

A six sided pentagram, (whatever that would be), would be the SAME THING, not two different things. A unity. In the world of the questioner, if the god was omnipotent and *wanted* to create two different things, it would not have *named* them the same. In creating two things, it was omnipotent in making the difference. It if *wanted* to make them the same it would not have made a difference, then conflated the ideas, it would simply have made nothing at all, (as that's more *efficient*). It's about "naming", and HUMAN language. It's not about god(s).
(The god is also omniscient. It would have known what it intended to do, and not do.)
I was incorrect thinks for explaining it!

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2012, 05:09 AM
RE: Can God create a six sided pentagon?
(28-10-2012 07:21 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Starcrash.

Quote: People tell me you're an agnostic, but assumptions like this make me doubt that very much.

Ugh, please, just don't even go there.

I don't know that God exists, so no, I haven't seen anything. And when in 1 500+ posts have you ever seen me argue that something is something because it's something? Give me some credit. This is a logical conclusion. If a being is omnipotent then they can do anything, by definition. If they can't do everything, then they aren't omnipotent. If some things are impossible, then omnipotence itself doesn't exist. Thus, if God is indeed omnipotent then yes, God can do anything. Furthermore, supernatural, by definition, means beyond the natural. Paradoxes are precluded by natural law; therefore, only a supernatural being could create one. If God isn't supernatural, then he's natural, like gravity and zits and cannot possibly be omnipotent. If God is not assumed to be omnipotent, then the question asked by the OP is irrelevant. Thus God must be, by definition, both omnipotent and supernatural. So yes, an omnipotent supernatural God could create a paradox by making a six-sided pentagon because the rules that prevent you and I from doing so don't apply to such a being.

Now, the reason I fruitlessly begged for no "yeah but God doesn't exist" questions is because nowhere am I making the argument that God exists. I have no idea if he does or not. But what I do know is that in order to be God, he has to meet certain criteria; namely, being supernatural and omnipotent (while omnipotence is not a strict requisite as far as I'm concerned, it must be assumed in the context of the OP's conversation). I know for fact that my ham sandwich is not God because it fails to meet those criteria.

Please understand that there are those of us that fall outside of the binary duel between is God/ain't God people. We can discuss the matter and present logical arguments without taking sides.

Quote:It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
-Aristotle

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

You said to give you credit -- you wouldn't present us with a tautology -- and then you confirmed that you came to your conclusion by definition. God can do anything because God is a being that can do anything. It's just an assumption because no one has ever proven that God is omnipotent (or even "proven God"), nor has anyone proven that an omnipotent being can violate paradoxes.

I know you say you don't "take sides", but this isn't a reasonable stance. Why would a nonbeliever insist on God's qualities through faith? Why aren't you looking at this through the lens of science (what is testable and verifiable)?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2012, 06:15 AM
RE: Can God create a six sided pentagon?
(24-10-2012 04:19 PM)Vosur Wrote:  The given examples are linguistic nonsense. A better example would be:

"Can god create a stone so heavy that he himself cannot lift it?"

I'll just give the easy answer. God can create an infinitely large stone and lift an infinitely large stone. You are really asking one to consider the concept of infinity .

I have a better answer http://www.atheistsrfun.com/can-god-make...t-lift-it/
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Theist_Typing's post
29-10-2012, 06:21 AM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2012 04:57 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Can God create a six sided pentagon?
(29-10-2012 06:15 AM)Theist_Typing Wrote:  
(24-10-2012 04:19 PM)Vosur Wrote:  The given examples are linguistic nonsense. A better example would be:

"Can god create a stone so heavy that he himself cannot lift it?"

I'll just give the easy answer. God can create an infinitely large stone and lift an infinitely large stone. You are really asking one to consider the concept of infinity .

I have a better answer http://www.atheistsrfun.com/can-god-make...t-lift-it/

God(s) which necessarily exist external to spacetime cannot "do" anything. Existing and "doing" require, a prioi space time. You have no proof that spcaetime exists outside this universe. If god "is" external to THIS universe, then anything which requires time, is out the window until you have demonstrated that time exists outside this universe, or that there even IS an "outside" this universe. Existence "outside" is both spatial and temporal.

So sad. Too bad.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2012, 06:26 AM
RE: Can God create a six sided pentagon?
(29-10-2012 06:15 AM)Theist_Typing Wrote:  
(24-10-2012 04:19 PM)Vosur Wrote:  The given examples are linguistic nonsense. A better example would be:

"Can god create a stone so heavy that he himself cannot lift it?"

I'll just give the easy answer. God can create an infinitely large stone and lift an infinitely large stone. You are really asking one to consider the concept of infinity .

I have a better answer http://www.atheistsrfun.com/can-god-make...t-lift-it/

Thanks for proving you are a smug, arrogant idiot, who can't handle the first argument that comes your way, deluded-for-years. Your answer is one of the worst ones I have ever seen. Squirrels and trees. Hahahahahaha.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
29-10-2012, 08:00 AM
RE: Can God create a six sided pentagon?
Hey, Starcrash.

You miss my point entirely and you have twice accused me of things I have not done. I've already made my point. It's clear. I'm moving on.

Hey, Bucky.

Accepting the fact that I disagree with you on a pretty fundamental level, you have accused me of redefining words to win my argument. I have done no such thing. I have used all of my terms (omnipotent, paradox, natural, supernatural) as defined. I'm just stating that for the record.

I now have a better understanding of your argument. Thank you.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2012, 08:43 AM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2012 11:11 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Can God create a six sided pentagon?
(29-10-2012 08:00 AM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Starcrash.

You miss my point entirely and you have twice accused me of things I have not done. I've already made my point. It's clear. I'm moving on.

Hey, Bucky.

Accepting the fact that I disagree with you on a pretty fundamental level, you have accused me of redefining words to win my argument. I have done no such thing. I have used all of my terms (omnipotent, paradox, natural, supernatural) as defined. I'm just stating that for the record.

I now have a better understanding of your argument. Thank you.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Those aren't the words you redefined. Since supernatural has no definition, it makes no difference. The words you either explicitly or implicitly redefine are "doing" "being" and "existence", ) or "existing". My point was made surrounding "doing". It's an action IN TIME.
If a god exists in, requires, and uses only words which have meaning which have a temporal dimension attached, whether explicitly, or presumptively, it cannot be god. Explain, please, how any of those words make sense in the absence of time, or define any of them without using a temporal linguistic modifier. Explain the difference between being/non-being, doing/not-doing, existence/non-existence without time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being

do·ing/ˈdo͞oiNG/
Noun:The activities in which a particular person engages. Deeds; accomplishments.

Whatever the god(s) are "about", it can't be, of necessity, that which is temporal.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2012, 08:51 AM
RE: Can God create a six sided pentagon?
(26-10-2012 04:49 PM)Theist_Typing Wrote:  Can God eliminate all confusion regarding religion by physically showing himself to everyone in the world and answering all the questions about his expectations of us?Apparently not. There. Omnipotence disproved. Ok, not really, but the logic is just as bad

You seem to have a biblical view of God. You need to get beyond that. You may only be someone who doesn't believe Christian or Jewish theology which is fine. Many go to church every Sunday with an eye as skeptical as yours. They go for social reasons and for respect that they get in the community.

I'm not sure why you would assume that from what I said. No god - Biblical or otherwise - has ever shown him/her/itself to everyone and answered those questions. The only assumption my point makes is that a god would have some sort of consciousness and the ability to show him/her/itself to us. However, I can't imagine any god not having those because anything else would either not be a "being" or would amount to no more than an alternate species with different, perhaps greater, abilities than us. Furthermore, the whole nature of your post assumes the same which is what I was replying to.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: