Can God create mutations? Eliottt Sober says we can’t rule that out.
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07-05-2012, 08:10 AM
Can God create mutations? Eliottt Sober says we can’t rule that out.
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/...-that-out/

Fascinating article that helps to highlight why trying to marry theism with the scientific method makes for bad philosophy.

This is one of my favorite topics because I've recently come to realize that philosophy of science appears to be one of the last bastions of theists (e.g. lots of theist bloggers cling to this particular academic discipline as a way of attempting to defend their belief systems).

It's actually quite comical when theists take these philosophical arguments and then take that magical leap in applying said arguments to their particular anthropomorphic deity (e.g. Jesus, Allah, etc.) but that's a discussion for another day...

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07-05-2012, 12:57 PM
RE: Can God create mutations? Eliottt Sober says we can’t rule that out.
To me, religion is NOT compatible with Science and never can be. Religion is based on lies and stories, Science is proven and based on logic and truth.

Quote:"Religion poisons everything." - Christopher Hitchens
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07-05-2012, 01:08 PM
RE: Can God create mutations? Eliottt Sober says we can’t rule that out.
(07-05-2012 12:57 PM)Stefania Wrote:  To me, religion is NOT compatible with Science and never can be. Religion is based on lies and stories, Science is proven and based on logic and truth.
I agree with your basic premise, but I think it's worth pointing out that the scientific method doesn't "prove" anything. Proofs are only used in the domain of mathematics.

By it's very definition, the scientific method cannot prove anything (e.g. provide 100% certainty) because it insists that even the most well-established, consensus ideas (e.g. theories like gravity and evolution) be constantly revisited and tested to see if they can be falsified.

That's what makes science so beautiful, in my opinion, and it's why so many people cannot come to terms with it. People want black & white, yes or no, certainty. Science doesn't provide that.

Instead it provides something that's much more aligned with fundamental physical reality; probability

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07-05-2012, 01:39 PM
RE: Can God create mutations? Eliottt Sober says we can’t rule that out.
If they start down that road it leaves them open to “So why do things need to evolve/improve if it was made without imperfections?”
They are playing with the thin edge of the wedge with god now guiding evolution. If it was god all along why didn’t they pick it earlier? Or did Scooby and the gang only just pull the mask off?
Back peddling like this only weakens their tenuous grasp, next they’ll saying crazy things like the earth is really fucking old, and the rest of the universe is even older!
How can so many people all reading the same bloody book written in the same language be so different from every one else reading the same book?
One says that evolution is a myth, another says it isn’t, yet another splits the difference and says god makes things evolve, guy No1 gets all ratty and now the world is only six thousand years old only to have contestant No2 use science against his view while No3 try’s to keep the peace.

Having christians discus evolution is like having nuns giving sexual advice.

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. Friedrich Nietzsche
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07-05-2012, 02:01 PM (This post was last modified: 07-05-2012 05:19 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Can God create mutations? Eliottt Sober says we can’t rule that out.
(07-05-2012 08:10 AM)lightninlives Wrote:  http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/...-that-out/

Fascinating article that helps to highlight why trying to marry theism with the scientific method makes for bad philosophy.

This is one of my favorite topics because I've recently come to realize that philosophy of science appears to be one of the last bastions of theists (e.g. lots of theist bloggers cling to this particular academic discipline as a way of attempting to defend their belief systems).

It's actually quite comical when theists take these philosophical arguments and then take that magical leap in applying said arguments to their particular anthropomorphic deity (e.g. Jesus, Allah, etc.) but that's a discussion for another day...


The MOST absurd part, is that the "leap" is done to the Yahweh god. They just assume, in their complete ignorance of Ancient History, that they can ignore the historical facts, and that they actually have a god to leap to. They do not. They're "fiddling, while Rome burns", or "puttering in the garden, while the house is burning down". Actually the hilarious thing about this gentleman, is he talks about (Hume's) "hidden" or "unexamined premises" needing exposure. He forgets to mention, there are at least two screaming at him, in HIS argument, and is deaf to them.




Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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07-05-2012, 02:12 PM
RE: Can God create mutations? Eliottt Sober says we can’t rule that out.
(07-05-2012 02:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 08:10 AM)lightninlives Wrote:  http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/...-that-out/

Fascinating article that helps to highlight why trying to marry theism with the scientific method makes for bad philosophy.

This is one of my favorite topics because I've recently come to realize that philosophy of science appears to be one of the last bastions of theists (e.g. lots of theist bloggers cling to this particular academic discipline as a way of attempting to defend their belief systems).

It's actually quite comical when theists take these philosophical arguments and then take that magical leap in applying said arguments to their particular anthropomorphic deity (e.g. Jesus, Allah, etc.) but that's a discussion for another day...


The MOST absurd part, is that the "leap" is done to the Yahweh god. They just assume, in their complete ignorance of Ancient History, that they can ignore the historical facts, and that they actually have a god to leap to. They do not. They're "fiddling, while Rome burns", or "puttering in the garden, while the house is buring down".



Completely agree and definitely dig that Youtube video series you linked to. I recommend it to any and all theists.

Powerful stuff.

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07-05-2012, 05:05 PM
RE: Can God create mutations? Eliottt Sober says we can’t rule that out.
(07-05-2012 08:10 AM)lightninlives Wrote:  http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/...-that-out/

Fascinating article that helps to highlight why trying to marry theism with the scientific method makes for bad philosophy.

This is one of my favorite topics because I've recently come to realize that philosophy of science appears to be one of the last bastions of theists (e.g. lots of theist bloggers cling to this particular academic discipline as a way of attempting to defend their belief systems).

It's actually quite comical when theists take these philosophical arguments and then take that magical leap in applying said arguments to their particular anthropomorphic deity (e.g. Jesus, Allah, etc.) but that's a discussion for another day...
Of course it's possible that God could create mutations. You could posit God behind any natural event. It's just a silly thing to do without evidence --- Occam's razor would suggest removing God from the equation until He can be shown to have taken part in causation.

I totally agree that theists see a lot of their future in debating philosophy of science topics. I don't mind. Wherever they move the goalposts, we'll just meet them there.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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07-05-2012, 05:06 PM
RE: Can God create mutations? Eliottt Sober says we can’t rule that out.
If he exists, he can do w/e the fuck he wants.
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07-05-2012, 05:14 PM
RE: Can God create mutations? Eliottt Sober says we can’t rule that out.
(07-05-2012 05:06 PM)jackashflash Wrote:  If he exists, he can do w/e the fuck he wants.


Well, actually she can't. If she "does" evil, she's not god. etc etc etc ...

Just the "choosing" to "do" something ... oh never mind.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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08-05-2012, 09:54 PM
RE: Can God create mutations? Eliottt Sober says we can’t rule that out.
God didn't make mistakes creating people.
People made mistakes creating god.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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