Can Privatized Prisons Work?
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25-08-2016, 04:02 PM
RE: Can Privatized Prisons Work?
(25-08-2016 03:58 PM)BnW Wrote:  I get that. And, I sincerely was not trying to take a shot at RS at all, and I hope he understands my point was not directed at him. But, the reality is that life is tough and you can't remove all the triggers. You either find ways of coping or you can't venture into the world. That's the cold reality. I'm not making light of PTSD, but people who suffer from it have to live in the world as it exists.

Grasshopper - I'm not going to shed any tears over him being gone. I'm just not thrilled with banning people for being rude. As I said at the outset, it's not my forum or my decision, so I'm not arguing against what was done.

But you can remove triggers from places like this. TTA is a community and we can choose to remove people from it. DLJ said it best in the ban log. The shit piling up from this guy was threatening the vital organs. The staff tried to rationalize with him but it became apparent that he wasn't able to see how his behavior was impacting other people and he wasn't going to change.
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25-08-2016, 04:05 PM
RE: Can Privatized Prisons Work?
(25-08-2016 03:58 PM)BnW Wrote:  Grasshopper - I'm not going to shed any tears over him being gone. I'm just not thrilled with banning people for being rude.

I agree with that statement. I'm rude myself every now and then. But in my opinion, Heywood went way beyond "rude" into "disgusting subhuman piece of shit" territory.
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25-08-2016, 04:08 PM
RE: Can Privatized Prisons Work?
(25-08-2016 03:58 PM)BnW Wrote:  I get that. And, I sincerely was not trying to take a shot at RS at all, and I hope he understands my point was not directed at him. But, the reality is that life is tough and you can't remove all the triggers. You either find ways of coping or you can't venture into the world. That's the cold reality. I'm not making light of PTSD, but people who suffer from it have to live in the world as it exists.

Grasshopper - I'm not going to shed any tears over him being gone. I'm just not thrilled with banning people for being rude. As I said at the outset, it's not my forum or my decision, so I'm not arguing against what was done.

He wasn't banned for being rude. If he was going to get banned for being rude he would have been banned a long, long time ago. As would a whole lot of other people here. Including me, I have been rather rude here at times.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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25-08-2016, 04:09 PM
RE: Can Privatized Prisons Work?
(25-08-2016 04:05 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(25-08-2016 03:58 PM)BnW Wrote:  Grasshopper - I'm not going to shed any tears over him being gone. I'm just not thrilled with banning people for being rude.

I agree with that statement. I'm rude myself every now and then. But in my opinion, Heywood went way beyond "rude" into "disgusting subhuman piece of shit" territory.

It might also be a safety issue. Is it even worth keeping someone of questionable moral character like Heywood around who seeks to manipulate people into giving him their personal information?
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25-08-2016, 04:34 PM
RE: Can Privatized Prisons Work?
People keep saying we shouldn't ban a "dissenting voice", and that this is an issue about free speech.

Yes, he often did serve as a dissenting voice, but that had nothing to do with why he was banned, or why I/we wanted him banned. It didn't even factor into that decision, except as a reason to keep him. Dissenting voices, as has been pointed out, are valuable.

I don't expect to be safe at all times. I don't expect to never hear anything I don't like. But this guy had, on multiple occasions, tried to seek out anything he could find to deliberately hurt me in any way he could. He referred to himself as a "supreme puppet master", and thought it was righteous to actively manipulate others in order to get what he wanted. This is why he did not apologize for his behavior.

Slander and libel are crimes. Granted, they're not prosecuted much, anymore, but this guy was so deliberately harmful to the people he hated (atheists) that he would stoop to any level in order to try to do harm, and I do not think his value as a dissenting voice in any way offset the damage he was deliberately causing. Being rude is not what he was doing. I'm totally okay with rude. Hell, I'm often rude. Calling what he was doing "rude" and defending it under the aegis of free speech is utterly incorrect.

Dom explained the issues related to PTSD pretty well, there. As all of you know, I am deeply critical of the wars in Iraq, etc. I would happily engage with a veteran who thought that what America was doing over there was righteous, and defend my position vigorously. But at no point would I stoop to referring to the soldier as a baby-killer, refer to him as a murderer, or talk about them getting their buddies killed, suggesting they participated in the rapes at Abu Ghraib, or other things deliberately designed to hurt the guy and trigger his worst memories simply because I don't like his position or find his counters to my arguments frustrating.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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25-08-2016, 04:40 PM
RE: Can Privatized Prisons Work?
Fair enough. I'm not trying to start any kind of argument, so I'm happy to drop the topic. And, I do agree he was a deliberate asshole.

Oh, slander and libel are not crimes. They can be causes for civil action but not criminal prosecution.

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25-08-2016, 04:46 PM
RE: Can Privatized Prisons Work?
(25-08-2016 02:14 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(25-08-2016 01:46 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Thanks, I thought it was interesting too, when hearing about it! And I agree with you that it would make sense to change at least some of the laws to better reflect the era we live in now, beyond some that have already been repealed.* I personally wouldn't mind seeing what you've suggested there, because it would probably help people more, though, they'd probably have to increase the pay rate for it to be good for people's families if they could send the money out instead of just adding it to a commissary account.

Right now, the pay range for paid inmate labor in the U.S. can range from ten cents an hour to whatever is decided by the state, federal government, or other entity running the facility. The Federal Prison Industry program (known as UNICOR) has some 83 factories around the United States, but only pays its prison workers a range from between 23 cents to $1.15 per hour, and tends to be considered on the high side of "employee" payment.

RS mentioned the law library gig paying well for the environment, and I think he said $40 a month? I was shocked it was that well paying sadly. x.x


*Totally not what you meant needed repealed, and I know you didn't mean it, but just one that I think folks may find interesting...one of the systems of prison labor that used to be big was the buying of people's contracts from the prison. Basically a private company, say a railroad or coal mine, would house, feed, and guard the inmates and have total control over their lives. Making them essentially slave labor for the company. But yeah, know what you mean about the ones that probably should be repealed for now.

Random thought: Now you've got me thinking I need to try and look and see if anyone's thought of your idea there, and tried publishing it in Criminology and Public Policy, which is written for accessibility to both academics and practitioners, and tends to discuss policy ideas regarding how stuff works in the system. It sounds like something one of their frequent contributors, Todd Clear, would bring up.

Edit: Also the sending money out brings up a thought. While some states allow inmates to send money out, I don't know offhand if all do, or the Feds do, and imagine private companies would have their own thoughts on the matter.

I haven't the foggiest notion what prison financials look like, but if a prison could take on contracts for skilled labor, then maybe they could generate enough money to operate the facility. Let's assume that a welder makes $12/hr on the outside. This figure assumes a profit for the welding company. Even if on the inside, the welder is only making $2/hour (take home), that may still allow for prison costs and small stipend for child support. It may enable prisoners to have enough income to address their personal needs rather than relying on family members on the outside to supplement them.

Even if the figure is only $100/ a month, wouldn't we rather see that $100 leaving the prison to go to feed a prisoner's kid rather than that $100 coming out of that kid's mouth to feed the prisoner?

Inmates can and do send money they make home to their families. In my state, inmates without a G.E.D. are required to work toward one in order to even qualify for parole (the programs are pretty awful, but they're there, and people can and do get their diplomas). In some states, inmates can take online college courses, but these have sadly been disappearing from the menu, as a great many inmates were using that opportunity to get degrees in pre-law or paralegal and then using that knowledge to turn around and successfully sue the prisons for subhuman/unconstitutional conditions and free inmates who were wrongfully imprisoned. They had to put the kibosh on that.

Inmates are frequently used as slave labor, in addition to their labor being used to offset the costs of running the facilities (by "employing" them in the prison laundry, kitchen, library, groundskeeping, etc.), to the point that they are now a major industry in and of themselves. Some companies even bring their manufacturing inside the facility so inmates can work in on-site shops. There is also "work-release", where prisoners nearing their release into the world actually leave the facility to go work in real-world jobs, then return to the prison after work. These are generally menial jobs like highway mowing crews and trash pickup, but they do serve the purpose of putting some money in the inmate's pocket upon release so they can have a shot at a fresh start when they exit the prison. The prison keeps half the money they make for "room and board", in all these cases.

Unfortunately, it is so profitable to employ inmates as slave labor that the government has vastly expanded the ways in which they are used, as in this example:

The expanding use of prison industries, which pay slave wages, as a way to increase profits for giant military corporations, is a frontal attack on the rights of all workers.

Prison labor — with no union protection, overtime pay, vacation days, pensions, benefits, health and safety protection, or Social Security withholding — also makes complex components for McDonnell Douglas/Boeing’s F-15 fighter aircraft, the General Dynamics/Lockheed Martin F-16, and Bell/Textron’s Cobra helicopter. Prison labor produces night-vision goggles, body armor, camouflage uniforms, radio and communication devices, and lighting systems and components for 30-mm [...] anti-aircraft guns, along with land mine sweepers and electro-optical equipment for the BAE Systems Bradley Fighting Vehicle’s laser rangefinder. Prisoners recycle toxic electronic equipment and overhaul military vehicles.

Labor in federal prisons is contracted out by UNICOR, previously known as Federal Prison Industries, a quasi-public, for-profit corporation run by the Bureau of Prisons. In 14 prison factories, more than 3,000 prisoners manufacture electronic equipment for land, sea and airborne communication. UNICOR is now the U.S. government’s 39th largest contractor, with 110 factories at 79 federal penitentiaries.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-pentago...sons/25376

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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25-08-2016, 04:51 PM
RE: Can Privatized Prisons Work?
(25-08-2016 04:40 PM)BnW Wrote:  Fair enough. I'm not trying to start any kind of argument, so I'm happy to drop the topic. And, I do agree he was a deliberate asshole.

Oh, slander and libel are not crimes. They can be causes for civil action but not criminal prosecution.

They are not crimes everywhere, but they are crimes. In many locations, falsely accusing someone of being a felon (or of a felony they did not commit) is a crime when other slanderous/libelous actions are not.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/crim...e-by-state

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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25-08-2016, 05:00 PM (This post was last modified: 25-08-2016 05:13 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Can Privatized Prisons Work?
(25-08-2016 11:35 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  
(25-08-2016 03:18 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Heywood is a filthy little fucker who deserves at least a ban Rocket you have my full support for what its worth. Quite frankly the prevarication of the administration makes me nervous about being here myself. If someone spams this forum they are out usually very quickly too, but suggest that someone is a pederast or woman beater and its oh well we will suspend them and may or may not ban them wtf !!!!

For the record, this is a load of shite. I'm very tired of people deciding for themselves what the admins job should be and how they should perform it. If you don't like how we do things here, you are free to move on. I've said it a thousand times...this forum is not for everyone.

I was here when the StarkRavingStoner wielded the forum banhammer for the first time. The departure of our dear friend Parture .... then he said fuck this shit, can't blame him ... then we went through a period of acting moderators some of whom were more interested in going all Lord of the Flies with rules and shit. Chas and Girly argued against that. The rules are proscriptive but not exhaustive. We lost several members I liked a lot like the Hellbound Preacher who I warned him against wielding the hammer. Now the banhammer is back where it belongs with the WeedHead and Moms. Health of the forum is their primary responsibility, not policing the rules.

This is the second time you've given the forum a "me or him" ultimatum RocketDoc. It diminishes your point.




#sigh
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25-08-2016, 05:02 PM
RE: Can Privatized Prisons Work?
Can't we just move forward? Heywood is not going to be problem here any more unless he drives the forum team crazy creating 'cock pimples'.

He's gone...let's enjoy the calm instead of stirring up a shitstorm after the main source of shit has left the building.

Please.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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