Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
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28-12-2016, 10:56 PM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(28-12-2016 10:25 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(28-12-2016 10:12 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Hmmmmm. So you don't think it's a nice embarrassing quirky little question that shows the God proposition doesn't work that well in reality? This isn't another of those questions to ask Christians? If you found yourself in heaven with no way to help those here on Earth, would that make you sad? Would heaven be a happy place for you? Would you ask yourself, "Why am I not allowed to help?".

What does this all say about the concept of a good God and heaven? For either an atheist or a theist? Of course it's easy to get lazy and blow it all of with a sarcastic blurt of dismissive rhetoric. So far, I am not really impressed with the reaction here to my innocent little proposition.

But for me, part of the joy of being an atheist is finding more reasons to doubt theism. and spreading the joy far and wide.

So you're an atheist and you are trying to showcase that if God/souls exist, then souls of dead relatives should be able to cross a threshold and tell us what it's like in heaven and communicate with us.

The problem is that there are some people who believe that souls do communicate to us via psychics. And some people do think dead relatives speak to them via dreams, coincidences etc. Once you crack open the magic can and add in the power of suggestion--anything is possible. I don't see this argument working with some of the people who believe in this type of thing. Also, god works in mysterious ways Hobo

Anyway, I hear what you are saying (or either that it's the wine talking Wink ) --that if souls exist, they should be able to communicate with us effectively in some way--at the very least to warn us heathens that we better get our shit together or else we'll be spending an eternity in God's personal fireplace.

Problems with psychics, necromancy like this is verboten in the Bible (Witch of Endor et al). And many psychics are obvious fakes. Either souls in heaven cannot communicate or there is no heaven. I think the latter. If God made it impossible for them to communicate with us in an rather unmistakable manner, the question then is why did God do that?

Here I expect the usual answer, God is inscrutable, incomprehensible. Logic and reason are abandoned to save appearances. Which is a common enough answer when backed into a corner for theists.

There are a number of such questions seen on such newsgroups like this. Can a soul in heaven sin? Does such a soul have free will? Here is another little such question to add to the pile.

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

Cheerful Charlie
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28-12-2016, 11:11 PM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(28-12-2016 10:56 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  
(28-12-2016 10:25 PM)jennybee Wrote:  So you're an atheist and you are trying to showcase that if God/souls exist, then souls of dead relatives should be able to cross a threshold and tell us what it's like in heaven and communicate with us.

The problem is that there are some people who believe that souls do communicate to us via psychics. And some people do think dead relatives speak to them via dreams, coincidences etc. Once you crack open the magic can and add in the power of suggestion--anything is possible. I don't see this argument working with some of the people who believe in this type of thing. Also, god works in mysterious ways Hobo

Anyway, I hear what you are saying (or either that it's the wine talking Wink ) --that if souls exist, they should be able to communicate with us effectively in some way--at the very least to warn us heathens that we better get our shit together or else we'll be spending an eternity in God's personal fireplace.

Problems with psychics, necromancy like this is verboten in the Bible (Witch of Endor et al). And many psychics are obvious fakes. Either souls in heaven cannot communicate or there is no heaven. I think the latter. If God made it impossible for them to communicate with us in an rather unmistakable manner, the question then is why did God do that?

Here I expect the usual answer, God is inscrutable, incomprehensible. Logic and reason are abandoned to save appearances. Which is a common enough answer when backed into a corner for theists.

There are a number of such questions seen on such newsgroups like this. Can a soul in heaven sin? Does such a soul have free will? Here is another little such question to add to the pile.

True. But many Christians cherry pick and don't seem to care that the psychic part is in The Bible. I have Christian friends and family members who have no problems going to psychics who can "communicate" to dead relatives and friends.
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29-12-2016, 01:24 AM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(28-12-2016 08:19 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  
(28-12-2016 08:09 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Oh for fuck's sake. Dodgy

It's a bizarre little thought for sure. Why don't the souls in heaven get to communicate with us?

Do you have evidence of heaven and souls existing?

Quote:What do the Christians have to say about this?

Don't know, don't care.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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29-12-2016, 02:34 AM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(28-12-2016 08:06 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Question, if one goes to heaven, can one witness what goes on down here on Earth? [...]

Uh... I'm guessing you've forgotten to take your medication today?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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29-12-2016, 05:15 AM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
Souls in heaven aren't allowed to interfere with those still on earth......

But ---

When it's raining, they are allowed to piss off the clouds onto the unsuspecting fools below....

Especially on the ones that ask stupid fucking questions....


Now, go outside and play.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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29-12-2016, 05:19 AM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(29-12-2016 05:15 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Now, go outside and play.....

In the rain?

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
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29-12-2016, 05:30 AM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(29-12-2016 05:19 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(29-12-2016 05:15 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Now, go outside and play.....

In the rain?

You catch on quickly grasshopper.


Big Grin

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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29-12-2016, 05:54 AM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
Cheerful Charlie Wrote:But for me, part of the joy of being an atheist is finding more reasons to doubt theism. and spreading the joy far and wide.

Right, so you're a proselytizer. You peddle atheism in the same way Christians peddle Jesus.
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29-12-2016, 06:02 AM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
At work.

(29-12-2016 05:54 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
Cheerful Charlie Wrote:But for me, part of the joy of being an atheist is finding more reasons to doubt theism. and spreading the joy far and wide.

Right, so you're a proselytizer. You peddle atheism in the same way Christians peddle Jesus.

Consider

So..... are you kind of saying Cheerful Charlie is reminiscent of a fish in search of a bicycle, Aliza?
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29-12-2016, 06:05 AM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(28-12-2016 08:06 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Question, if one goes to heaven, can one witness what goes on down here on Earth? Can someone in heaven help somebody in need? Or is that forbidden? Or just not doable? Can one approach God and ask for his intercedence?
Would lack of ability to help people on Earth make one sad in heaven?

Why cannot souls in heaven decide to en masses communicate with us on Earth in an organized manner? Telling us for example if Christianity is true and Islam is a false religion? Thousands of spirit voices for weeks on end addressing the world on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem?

Great questions.

And it's exactly questions like that, over 40 years ago, that helped me realise how silly the whole idea of an afterlife really is.

Which is why, almost exactly 40 years ago, my first sexual encounter was guilt-free.

I shudder to think what an emotional mess I would be now had I decided that granny was watching over me.

Blush

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