Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
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29-12-2016, 10:39 AM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2016 10:44 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(29-12-2016 08:28 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Are you telling me it is bad and unacceptable to promoted common sense atheism?

Is there uncommon sense atheism?

Quote:"Still proselytizing." Yep. Until the day I die.

I don't see you succeeding. Even atheist laugh at your methods.

Quote:To the pest religions, simply yowling "God does not exist!" doesn't work. You need evidence that idea is not viable.

Pest religions?

Also in era of information ignorance is a choice. But honestly you don't need much info to conclude that talking snakes and god birthing virgins are bullshit. So it's not about evidence but feels I gather and that mean your method also wont work.

Quote:If the idea that there is a heaven is given for sake of argument, would any good person in heaven be sad at the prospect of not being able to offer help to those still on Earth? Would this make heaven a happy place for you? Is this a question atheists should ask the evangelists and apologists?

Ask if you want. Why should I care? After all it is you who want proselytize. I care not about what sheep believe.

Quote:Why would a perfectly good God allow heaven to be this way? Why is that Bible God so cruel and heartless? To what point?

Problem of evil and it's variations are nothing new. It isn't gotcha question for theist as they could always pull "god work in mysterious ways" straight from their asses.


In short: if you think that you can convince people that god they worship is evil when genocide he committed isn't enough for them to change mind then I have bad news for you.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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29-12-2016, 11:44 AM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(29-12-2016 08:16 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Would you want to spend an eternity in such a heaven? I think this is a good idea to ask those evangelical apologists about this. Maybe make them think a bit about what do they really think about the nature of heaven and God.

Then go ask them and quit annoying us.

Quote:It is a bit sad here to see that nobody seems to have much intellectual curiosity to explore this idea a bit more closely.

"intellectual curiosity"? More like mental masturbation.
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29-12-2016, 12:11 PM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(29-12-2016 10:04 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  
(29-12-2016 07:41 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Probably because the way you are asking makes it sound like you are a believer trying to play some sort of "gotcha" game with the poor, misguided atheists.

What believer would ask that sort of question as a "gotcha" for atheists? That doesn't make much sense.

I didn't say it made sense; most questions about the abilities of fictional characters don't make sense. I don't know what you intended with your original question but it sounded to me like you were a believer trying to play games. I get that impression from many of your posts.

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29-12-2016, 01:08 PM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(28-12-2016 08:06 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Question, if one goes to heaven, can one witness what goes on down here on Earth?
No.

(28-12-2016 08:06 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Can someone in heaven help somebody in need?
No.

(28-12-2016 08:06 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Or is that forbidden?
No.

(28-12-2016 08:06 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Or just not doable?
Not doable in the sense that none of those thigns exist.

(28-12-2016 08:06 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Can one approach God and ask for his intercedence?
No.

(28-12-2016 08:06 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Would lack of ability to help people on Earth make one sad in heaven?
No, as emotional states don't exist in nonexistent people in nonexistent places.

(28-12-2016 08:06 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Why cannot souls in heaven decide to en masses communicate with us on Earth in an organized manner?
Lack of existence is the primary problem.

(28-12-2016 08:06 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Telling us for example if Christianity is true and Islam is a false religion?
No.

(28-12-2016 08:06 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Thousands of spirit voices for weeks on end addressing the world on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem?
No.

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29-12-2016, 01:15 PM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(28-12-2016 08:25 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  I am writing this fro an Atheist perspective.
The atheist perspective is that god doesn't exist which, one would think, kinda makes the question on why god doesn't allow this or that a bit of a stupid question. Doesn't it mate?

(28-12-2016 08:25 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Many religions, especially Christianity tell us there is a heaven, where the souls of some go. If so, why do we get no sort of "settle it for once and for all" communication from heaven?
Because religions lie.

(28-12-2016 08:25 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Would it make you sad as a soul in heaven to be unable to help?
If I can be sad in Heaven in what way is it Heaven?

(28-12-2016 08:25 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Is God all that good if the souls of heaven aren't allowed to help?
Atheist perspective: he is not good or bad as he doesn't exist and non-existent things have no attributes.

(28-12-2016 08:25 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  What's the deal here?
Stupid concepts created by stupid people generally contain a whole lot of stupid.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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29-12-2016, 01:43 PM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(28-12-2016 08:06 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Question, if one goes to heaven, can one witness what goes on down here on Earth? Can someone in heaven help somebody in need? Or is that forbidden? Or just not doable? Can one approach God and ask for his intercedence?
Would lack of ability to help people on Earth make one sad in heaven?

Why cannot souls in heaven decide to en masses communicate with us on Earth in an organized manner? Telling us for example if Christianity is true and Islam is a false religion? Thousands of spirit voices for weeks on end addressing the world on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem?

What I really want to know is do plants have souls too? Consider

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29-12-2016, 02:04 PM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(29-12-2016 06:34 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Another good question. Why can't the characters in books or movies hear me when I try to give them advice ? I've yelled very loudly and they still can't hear me.

This ^^^^^ Thumbsup Yes

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29-12-2016, 02:04 PM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(29-12-2016 08:16 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Why is there no obvious concerted effort from the good souls in heaven to offer a more direct communication to us?
I would expect communication from God him/her/itself, but we don't even see that. Even if you believe the Bible tells of God doing this, it hasn't happened in the last 2,000 years.

(29-12-2016 08:16 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Would you as a possible good Christian be sad if in heaven, you were not capable of helping those needing help? Would that make heaven a bit of a hell for you? Why do so few Christians seem to have thought about this?
Or loved ones in hell. From heaven, that would make it a little less blissful too or else the bliss would drown out the sadness - but that's counter-intuitive to real love which is what (Christian) gawd is supposed to be all about.

(29-12-2016 08:16 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Would you want to spend an eternity in such a heaven? I think this is a good idea to ask those evangelical apologists about this. Maybe make them think a bit about what do they really think about the nature of heaven and God. It is a bit sad here to see that nobody seems to have much intellectual curiosity to explore this idea a bit more closely.
Dude, this is presumptuous. Look around the site for awhile. These are not new questions so they've already been explored. Also, your OP sounds like you're a believer so that's the main reason for the lack of replies of the type you are looking for. It would have helped if you had started with "From a Christian perspective, if one goes to heaven...", for example - or at least announced first that you are an atheist interested in exploring something that doesn't appear to make sense.

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29-12-2016, 04:11 PM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(28-12-2016 08:25 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  
(28-12-2016 08:18 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  You need to first establish that there is such a place as Heaven and such things as a god or souls. Until you do, your question is devoid of content. We can all imagine that such things exist but in the end all we're left with is the imaginary. Can all the souls in heaven decide en mass to communicate with those on Earth? In the realm of the imagination, what one imagines can do anything one imagines it doing, except for being real.

I am writing this fro an Atheist perspective. Many religions, especially Christianity tell us there is a heaven, where the souls of some go. If so, why do we get no sort of "settle it for once and for all" communication from heaven?
Would it make you sad as a soul in heaven to be unable to help? Is God all that good if the souls of heaven aren't allowed to help? What's the deal here? More problems for the concept of Christianity to explain.

I don't believe in god, therefore I don't believe in heaven or hell.

end of story.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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29-12-2016, 04:20 PM
RE: Can Souls in Heaven Intervene In Affaits On Earth?
(29-12-2016 02:04 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(29-12-2016 08:16 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Why is there no obvious concerted effort from the good souls in heaven to offer a more direct communication to us?
I would expect communication from God him/her/itself, but we don't even see that. Even if you believe the Bible tells of God doing this, it hasn't happened in the last 2,000 years.

(29-12-2016 08:16 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Would you as a possible good Christian be sad if in heaven, you were not capable of helping those needing help? Would that make heaven a bit of a hell for you? Why do so few Christians seem to have thought about this?
Or loved ones in hell. From heaven, that would make it a little less blissful too or else the bliss would drown out the sadness - but that's counter-intuitive to real love which is what (Christian) gawd is supposed to be all about.

(29-12-2016 08:16 AM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  Would you want to spend an eternity in such a heaven? I think this is a good idea to ask those evangelical apologists about this. Maybe make them think a bit about what do they really think about the nature of heaven and God. It is a bit sad here to see that nobody seems to have much intellectual curiosity to explore this idea a bit more closely.
Dude, this is presumptuous. Look around the site for awhile. These are not new questions so they've already been explored. Also, your OP sounds like you're a believer so that's the main reason for the lack of replies of the type you are looking for. It would have helped if you had started with "From a Christian perspective, if one goes to heaven...", for example - or at least announced first that you are an atheist interested in exploring something that doesn't appear to make sense.


Its a question no believer would ask. Obviously. And its a good question. Theoretically, in heaven, it would be sad for many not to be able to offer help. A sobering little thought. Maybe heaven isn't all that the believers have cracked it up to be.

Nor in the many years of debating religion on line have I ever seen this particular question debated. Just another good reason to doubt.

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

Cheerful Charlie
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