Can a conservative be an atheist?
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11-08-2017, 08:59 AM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2017 09:05 AM by Robvalue.)
RE: Can a conservative be an atheist?
(11-08-2017 05:29 AM)reeveseb Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 12:51 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  This has probably been covered already but...

Yes, you can. The two positions are entirely unrelated. Atheism is only concerned with the lack of belief in deities, whatever they are, and nothing more.

I'm not really too concerned with whether someone identifies as "a liberal" or "a conservative". I just listen to their views on whatever subject we're talking about. I find any kind of over-identification to be dogmatic and dangerous. I might agree with "liberals" on some things and "conservatives" on others. I take each issue on its merits.

You're right in a technical sense. Unrelated. However, the question was posted because there seems to be an undeniable link between atheists and those who fall to the left of center in their beliefs. I was curious to know what others thought.

I agree with your assessment on labels. I think breaking away from my self-imposed labels is probably the best, yet hardest thing to do, but necessary to continue to grow and learn.

Thanks Smile

I agree, I have noticed atheists generally leaning more towards liberal ideas. But I suppose that what counts as a liberal idea is very subjective, and somewhat in response to the more conservative ideas that are being pushed for.

I'm not altogether clear what either is supposed to mean; they seem to have lost any textbook meaning now. I'm generally for maximum personal freedom, with minimum (but necessary) government involvement. But I think people need to pay taxes to keep things running. I'm for looking after society's most vulnerable members. What are those ideas? I don't know.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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11-08-2017, 09:16 AM
RE: Can a conservative be an atheist?
(11-08-2017 07:15 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(10-08-2017 08:53 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  In general, people like this don't get welfare. They may have lied on their applications. At least as far as MA for paying hospital bills, I see strict enforcement.
And in fact, who did the last major welfare reform in the US ? William Jefferson Clinton's administration. Tongue

Lol. Nice revision of history.

Welfare reform was passed by the Republican controlled congress. Welfare reform was written by republicans. Clinton wanted welfare reform but he never came to the table with a plan. In fact, Clinton vetoed the first two welfare reform bills that the congress passed because they "went too far" and he even complained that the one he eventually signed was too "conservative." Most of the "no" votes were democrats. 165 out of 170 no votes in the house were democrats and 24 out of 25 no votes in the Senate were democrats.

Clinton nor democrats reformed welfare.

My my. That was a short six months. Liar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_R...tunity_Act

Part of Clinton's campaign was "end welfare as we know it", which was a growing NATIONAL consensus. Unlike your fool in the White House today, who can't do anything he said he would, and in fact is SO FUCKING STUPID he thinks all he does is say "do it" and it magically happens, Clinton actually was an integral part of the dialogue, and KNEW something about it, as he was a governor. He promised it, and it got signed, and then the country under him went on to have the only surplus in recent memory.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-08-2017, 09:23 AM
RE: Can a conservative be an atheist?
(11-08-2017 09:16 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 07:15 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Lol. Nice revision of history.

Welfare reform was passed by the Republican controlled congress. Welfare reform was written by republicans. Clinton wanted welfare reform but he never came to the table with a plan. In fact, Clinton vetoed the first two welfare reform bills that the congress passed because they "went too far" and he even complained that the one he eventually signed was too "conservative." Most of the "no" votes were democrats. 165 out of 170 no votes in the house were democrats and 24 out of 25 no votes in the Senate were democrats.

Clinton nor democrats reformed welfare.

My my. That was a short six months. Liar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_R...tunity_Act

Part of Clinton's campaign was "end welfare as we know it", which was a growing NATIONAL consensus. Unlike your fool in the White House today, who can't do anything he said he would, and in fact is SO FUCKING STUPID he thinks all he does is say "do it" and it magically happens, Clinton actually was an integral part of the dialogue, and KNEW something about it, as he was a governor. He promised it, and it got signed, and then the country under him went on to have the only surplus in recent memory.

Just because Clinton wanted welfare reform doesn't mean he had anything to do with the bill that got signed into law. The bill as passed was authored by a republican. Passed by nearly all republicans. Rejected by most democrats. Signed by Bill Clinton due to public pressure (he vetoed earlier versions twice and polls were showing public backlash). If he would have vetoed it a third time he probably wouldn't have won a 2nd term.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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11-08-2017, 09:26 AM
RE: Can a conservative be an atheist?
(11-08-2017 09:23 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 09:16 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  My my. That was a short six months. Liar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_R...tunity_Act

Part of Clinton's campaign was "end welfare as we know it", which was a growing NATIONAL consensus. Unlike your fool in the White House today, who can't do anything he said he would, and in fact is SO FUCKING STUPID he thinks all he does is say "do it" and it magically happens, Clinton actually was an integral part of the dialogue, and KNEW something about it, as he was a governor. He promised it, and it got signed, and then the country under him went on to have the only surplus in recent memory.

Just because Clinton wanted welfare reform doesn't mean he had anything to do with the bill that got signed into law. The bill as passed was authored by a republican. Passed by nearly all republicans. Rejected by most democrats. Signed by Bill Clinton due to public pressure (he vetoed earlier versions twice and polls were showing public backlash). If he would have vetoed it a third time he probably wouldn't have won a 2nd term.

Does your helmet have a 'Make America Great Again' sticker on it so that others of your ilk can easily identify you?

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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11-08-2017, 09:31 AM
RE: Can a conservative be an atheist?
I think part of it has to do with the circumstances under which one becomes an atheist. In large swaths of the country you just grow up in areas that are Christian and conservative. What makes one person in places like that become an atheist and a thousand others don't? (In my case it was intelligence, a magnetic personality, and stunning good looks, but I mean, you know, for other people.) There may be some commonalities in personality traits, maybe the way we think about life, a contrarian or heavily questioning nature maybe. These things that lead someone to atheism can't help but affect their outlook on other things, certainly politics. That contrarian nature may get a person to initially challenge the political mores of their community, then the new political preference can get confirmed in the usual ways.

Of course one doesn't have to be anything to be an atheist, but it's interesting to see trends and wonder the causes.
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11-08-2017, 09:34 AM
RE: Can a conservative be an atheist?
(11-08-2017 09:23 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 09:16 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  My my. That was a short six months. Liar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_R...tunity_Act

Part of Clinton's campaign was "end welfare as we know it", which was a growing NATIONAL consensus. Unlike your fool in the White House today, who can't do anything he said he would, and in fact is SO FUCKING STUPID he thinks all he does is say "do it" and it magically happens, Clinton actually was an integral part of the dialogue, and KNEW something about it, as he was a governor. He promised it, and it got signed, and then the country under him went on to have the only surplus in recent memory.

Just because Clinton wanted welfare reform doesn't mean he had anything to do with the bill that got signed into law. The bill as passed was authored by a republican. Passed by nearly all republicans. Rejected by most democrats. Signed by Bill Clinton due to public pressure (he vetoed earlier versions twice and polls were showing public backlash). If he would have vetoed it a third time he probably wouldn't have won a 2nd term.

Unlike your fool ("Who knew health care was this complicated", Laugh out load didn't know the difference between Medicare and Medicaid), and then did absolutely nothing to help get the bill passed, Clinton was involved, A LOT. "Gingrich and Clinton negotiated the legislation in private meetings. Previously, Clinton had quietly spoken with Senate Majority Whip Trent Lott for months about the bill, but a compromise on a more acceptable bill for the President could not be reached. Gingrich, on the other hand, gave accurate information about his party's vote counts and persuaded the more conservative members of the Republican Party to vote in favor of PRWORA.[18]"

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-08-2017, 09:34 AM
RE: Can a conservative be an atheist?
(11-08-2017 12:38 AM)morondog Wrote:  If the quote is long, forum collapses it automagically. You can see the bolding if you click to expand it.

Ah, thank you.
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11-08-2017, 11:05 AM
RE: Can a conservative be an atheist?
My dad is an atheist and conservative. He spends a lot of his time complaining about theists and liberals. My mom has pointed out before, "It's kind of unusual that you're a staunch atheist and a Republican." So yup, conservatives can definitely be atheists.
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11-08-2017, 11:10 AM
RE: Can a conservative be an atheist?
(11-08-2017 11:05 AM)AnaBunny Wrote:  My dad is an atheist and conservative. He spends a lot of his time complaining about theists and liberals. My mom has pointed out before, "It's kind of unusual that you're a staunch atheist and a Republican." So yup, conservatives can definitely be atheists.

My dad was also atheist and Republican...

Why is it so hard for some to understand that the only thing we (atheists) all have in common is a lack of belief in a god or gods...the concept isn't that difficult.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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11-08-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: Can a conservative be an atheist?
(11-08-2017 11:10 AM)Anjele Wrote:  My dad was also atheist and Republican...

Why is it so hard for some to understand that the only thing we (atheists) all have in common is a lack of belief in a god or gods...the concept isn't that difficult.

The question was meant to be more of a conversation starter, not a serious yes or no question. Of course they can be, but in my experience it is unusual. Just wanted to talk about it. As Vera so clearly (rhetorically) pondered, "Can a blues fan be an atheist? Can a blue-eyed person be an atheist? Can a javelin thrower be an atheist?" The concept is not difficult. Perhaps I would have done better to phrase my question in a slightly better way.

Additionally, as all good conversations should, I did realize that I don't fit into the conservative label as it is traditionally understood. I have many views that combined don't fall under any one label. Lots of great opinions here. Love it!

It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.
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