Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
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10-05-2012, 01:54 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2012 11:10 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
Being involved in aerospace and defense I’ve followed the F-22A Raptor program since its early days in the tail end of the Cold War as the Advanced Tactical Fighter program. I have been seeing the jet with a weary eye lately. Don’t get me wrong. The Raptor is a very capable jet in the air-to-air role, albeit a bit large and heavy.
But the horrendous costs ($350 million per airplane!) combined with a laxed test program, lowered performance requirements, technical headaches, farmed out contracts to deter Congressional inquiry, avionics becoming rapidly outdated, and the tremendous maintenance and repair costs required to keep the jet in the air make it difficult to justify having them in our arsenal.


Now the latest problems with the jet involve pilots experiencing symptoms of hypoxia while flying the F-22. The jet’s OBOGS system is not delivering enough oxygen at high altitude, leaving the pilot imperiled and incapacitated. The jet was grounded while the Air Force and Lockheed Martin tried to find the cause of these problems. But
they have continued and are now starting to crop up during ground tests of the
aircraft. It’s become so bad that two pilots from the 92nd Fighter Wing o
are refusing to fly their Raptors until the problem is addressed.

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/09...ses-grows/





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11-05-2012, 12:26 AM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
I don't blame (the pilots) them. They risk their lives enough. Sounds dangerous Yes

I love fighter jets. I've always had a soft spot for the F18 hornet Heart

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11-05-2012, 01:08 AM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2012 05:07 AM by Filox.)
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
Hahahahaha... American jet-fighters make me laugh! Specially the ancient F-16 that they are trying to sell to retarded Croatians that are actually considering to buy them instead of MIG 29s... We are the biggest idiots on this planet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig_29

With the price of 29 mil for the new version (2009) or the price of ONLY 11 mil for the older versions ('84-'99) no USA plane can come near it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22

So this nice modern plane is 150 mil a piece? Would you want one of these, or would you get 5-10 MIG 29's?

Big Grin

I am sorry Americans, but Russian MIGs were always the better option.

I would like to show you the manoeuvring capabilities of MIG 29, how he can turn 360 upside down in just a few meters of space (that's right, almost in place) but I am at work and youtube is blocked by proxy, so I can't now, will put it when I get home.

F22 is a great plane, for long distance fights, with the support of AWACS, but alone 1on1 vs a MIG 29, in a dog fight, no chance at all. Plus it costs 5-10 times more money, so ...

You just can't beat Russian military equipment. Good examples of Russian perfection are MIG 29 (Fulcrum) airplane, Mil MI 24 (Hind) helicopter and AK-47 (Kalashnikov)assault rifle. Make it that cheap and that effective, then we can continue the "discussion".

Big Grin

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11-05-2012, 01:39 AM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
Yeah, Rachel Maddow covered it in a show a year or 2 ago.
The entire program costs billions but gives thousands of jobs in dozens of states.

On another note: the new one, the F-35 is a complete failure, it's too heavy to be a maneuverable fighter but too light to carry any sort of proper bomb.

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11-05-2012, 01:46 AM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
Don't you find it ridiculous and strange that in the 80's the American and Russian planes were a competition, they were much more equal, but then it feels like the Americans just stayed with the old F-16 and didn't go much forward... MIG 29 is also an older plane, but it can still rival all the new planes in the world, plus, the Russian have newer planes as well, and they work fine.

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11-05-2012, 03:56 AM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
But don't forget:
In mother Russia, plane flies you!

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11-05-2012, 06:41 AM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
(11-05-2012 01:46 AM)Filox Wrote:  Don't you find it ridiculous and strange that in the 80's the American and Russian planes were a competition, they were much more equal, but then it feels like the Americans just stayed with the old F-16 and didn't go much forward... MIG 29 is also an older plane, but it can still rival all the new planes in the world, plus, the Russian have newer planes as well, and they work fine.
Well, the military is struggling to defend the need for new planes.

The problem is human pilots. There isn't much more you can do to improve a jet designed to dog fight because you'll just kill the pilot. The other problem is who is out there to dog fight with these days?

On the other side, we don't really need amazing new bombers either. Everything is drones, or smart missiles these days.

If the military were really smart, they would design a new plane that pushes the limits of pilot survivability with modularized electronics. They can just keep upgrading the plane design with new tech and engines as they build more without redesigning from the ground up every time.
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11-05-2012, 06:54 AM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2012 07:06 AM by Filox.)
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
And I am home, finally, and here is a great video of MIG 29 maneuverability. The way this thing makes loopings is just ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIdvSQB2d...re=related

Now if you take this and you compare it with the price and you come up with the figures of 5 Mig-29's against one F-22 the conclusion is more than logical. Americans have failed to defeat the Russians in air supremacy and F-22 is a good plane, but just way too expensive and buggy for it to be a threat to the competition.

And then there is also SU-35 which costs around 65 mil $, so it is still 2-2.5 times cheaper than F-22... Check this baby out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhigI6ioK...re=related

As for the "invisible" F-22, it is invisible only until it turns on it's radar, so it needs AWACS system for guidance, or else it looses it's stealthiness and that is the main attribute of this Raptor. I am not satisfied with this plane, I do not think I'm gonna buy it. Tell those pricks in Lockheed to stop spamming my mail!

Big Grin


P.S.

Here is an extremely interesting story about the EMP from a nuclear blast. F-22 can suck big hairy balls after any kind of EMP, but Mig's...

Quote:I remember of a story of a Russian pilot who escaped from USSR with it's MIG (MIG-23 I think) US army dismantled the MIG and nearly died of laughing when they see it was working with vacuum tubes...

until EMI specialists told then that this plain was the only on to really resist to an EMP.

as far as I know USSR was using very rough machines, like a transport van that was tested to support a nuclear blast (supersonic shock wave),. the only thing you have to do was to put this vehicle on it's wheel (the shock wave make it roll like a bush ball) and turn the key.

in any case if you feel someone is really stupid, be careful ... the most stupid might not be the one you think...

I heard this a long time ago, but didn't find any reliable sources, but knowing how Russians build things, I am pretty sure this is true, specially concerning the quality of the vacuum tubes, Russian production of military vacuum tubes (used today for high-end HI-FI amplifiers by those who know what a real sound is) and the cold war that was going on at the time when Mig-23 was build.

If this is true, it would mean that the Russian planes could be the only planes in the sky after a nuclear attack... Imagine that. So there, enjoy your drones, AWACS, and F-22's.

Smile

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11-05-2012, 08:28 AM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2012 08:47 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
(11-05-2012 01:08 AM)Filox Wrote:  Hahahahaha... American jet-fighters make me laugh! Specially the ancient F-16 that they are trying to sell to retarded Croatians that are actually considering to buy them instead of MIG 29s... We are the biggest idiots on this planet!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig_29

With the price of 29 mil for the new version (2009) or the price of ONLY 11 mil for the older versions ('84-'99) no USA plane can come near it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22

So this nice modern plane is 150 mil a piece? Would you want one of these, or would you get 5-10 MIG 29's?

Big Grin

I am sorry Americans, but Russian MIGs were always the better option.

I would like to show you the manoeuvring capabilities of MIG 29, how he can turn 360 upside down in just a few meters of space (that's right, almost in place) but I am at work and youtube is blocked by proxy, so I can't now, will put it when I get home.

F22 is a great plane, for long distance fights, with the support of AWACS, but alone 1on1 vs a MIG 29, in a dog fight, no chance at all. Plus it costs 5-10 times more money, so ...

You just can't beat Russian military equipment. Good examples of Russian perfection are MIG 29 (Fulcrum) airplane, Mil MI 24 (Hind) helicopter and AK-47 (Kalashnikov)assault rifle. Make it that cheap and that effective, then we can continue the "discussion".

Big Grin
Don't knock the F-16, dude. It is still one of the most capable air-to-air birds out there. There is very good reason countries are still buying them. In addition, a Block 60+ viper with judicious upgrades to the avionics, an integrated passive IRST pod, a helmet mounted cueing system for the AIM-9X missile and a Multi Axis Thrust Vectoring system for post-stall super-maneuverability would be one of the deadliest jets you could encounter in a dogfight. Lockheed Martin has done everything it can to shut down the F-16 line in Ft Worth but the orders for the plane still keep coming.

As for the MiG-29/35, never has a military aircraft seemingly had so much potential yet proven to be such a dud in real combat. Near as I know, every wartime encounter between a Fulcrum and both western made aircraft and Warsaw Pact jets, the MiG-29 lost. Russians fly great airshows and wow gullible western reporters with said parlor tricks, but war is the ultimate (and most unforgiving) judge of them all. This was expressed by a Red Flag instructor in an unflattering video about the Indian Air Force's Russian built Sukhoi SU-30MKI at a recent Red Flag exercise at Nellis AFB.

SU-30MKI Red Flag Lecture, Part 1




SU-30MKI Red Flag Lecture, Part 1




So pit a Raptor vs a Fulcrum in a 1 v 1 dogfight? My money is on the Raptor. You'll never see him coming (but he'll see you), he's faster and can maintain those speeds at higher altitudes with greater duration and will turn inside of the MiG - all without having to resort to post stall flight. In addition, Russians build wonderful airframes, but their jet engine technology flat out sucks and is about 20 years behind that of western fighter engines. Their thrust to weight ratios, spool up times, and FOD tolerance are all poor compared with engines like the F100, F119, F135, EJ2000, etc. If you ain't got the push, you ain't going.

(11-05-2012 12:26 AM)aurora Wrote:  I don't blame (the pilots) them. They risk their lives enough. Sounds dangerous Yes

I love fighter jets. I've always had a soft spot for the F18 hornet Heart
Have you seen the TV series Jetstream on the Canadian Discovery Channel?





Episode 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYnadCgFp...ure=relmfu

Episode 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkRpMJJvP...ure=relmfu

Episode 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9acsMAP_...ure=relmfu

Episode 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzR9av3VU...ure=relmfu

Episode 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59407uai9...ure=relmfu

Episode 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nGMpA79R...ure=relmfu

Episode 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5HeKuZ8k...ure=relmfu

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11-05-2012, 11:08 PM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
Oooh, I love it when you guys talk dirty (tech talk) Big Grin Heart

I don't really understand what you're saying but I get the gist.

Thanks, Carlo, I will watch it Smile

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