Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
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14-05-2012, 02:47 AM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
Nice, we are in a dog fight...

Smile

So, not so fast, ha? Well, not so slow either...

Mig 29:
- max speed: 2.25 mach
- rate of climb 330 m/s
- thrust/weight: 1.08

F 22:
- max speed 2.25 mach
- thrust/weight: 1.09
- rate of climb - does not say.

They appear to be pretty identical, I don't know who ever gave you the idea that Russian jet engines are not as good?

As for the F-22 and his stealth, it is stealth only until it turns on it's radar. So without an AWACS support, F-22 IN NOT a stealth plane.

Gotta go now will continue to dog-fight you when I get back.

Smile

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14-05-2012, 10:57 AM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
(14-05-2012 02:47 AM)Filox Wrote:  Nice, we are in a dog fight...

Smile

So, not so fast, ha? Well, not so slow either...

Mig 29:
- max speed: 2.25 mach
- rate of climb 330 m/s
- thrust/weight: 1.08

F 22:
- max speed 2.25 mach
- thrust/weight: 1.09
- rate of climb - does not say.

They appear to be pretty identical, I don't know who ever gave you the idea that Russian jet engines are not as good?

As for the F-22 and his stealth, it is stealth only until it turns on it's radar. So without an AWACS support, F-22 IN NOT a stealth plane.

Gotta go now will continue to dog-fight you when I get back.

Smile
There are a few fallacies here

Speed:

Both jets are capable of Mach 2+ dash speeds, meaning that the jets will attain these speeds in a clean configuration (no external stores) at an optimum altitude (about 35,000ft) and air temperature, and can only do so in maximum power using full afterburner. Doing so consumes about 2,000lb (300 gal) of fuel per minute. The MiG's internal fuel capacity is 1,135 gal, so this gives you 3.78 minutes of flight time before you run out of gas at these power settings. In addition, the MiG cannot attain these speeds in a combat configuration. It carries all of its weapons externally, which creates a tremendous amount of parasite drag. In an air-to-air configuration i.e. 1 x 400gal centerline drop tank, 2 x AA-10 BVR missiles and 4 x AA-11 IR dogfighting missiles, the drag penalty would probably limit the aircraft to about Mach 1.2 in full burner.

In the speed arena, the Raptor has a couple of advantages. It was designed to carry the air-to-air loadout of an F-15 (6 x AIM-120 BVR missiles, 2 x AIM-9 IR missiles, 480 x 20mm cannon rounds, and 3 x 600gal drop tanks) internally; this is why the F-22 looks a little chubby. Therefore the parasite drag problem for a combat configuration is eliminated with the Raptor, giving true maximum dash speeds. The Raptor can also supercruise, that is, cruise at meaningful supersonic speeds without having to use fuel hungry afterburners. The exact top speed of the Raptor's supercruise is classified, but the USAF will say that it did supercruise at Mach 1.73 during it's test flights. The supercruise fuel burn is not the most efficient cruise profile for the Raptor, but it will yield at least a hour or so of endurance. The MiG is not capable of this at any supersonic speeds, combat configured or otherwise.

Stealth

The F-22A is considered to be a second generation stealth aircraft. It's Radar Cross Section (RCS) is not as low as that of a B-2 from all angles, but frontal RCS is over 100 times smaller than an F-15s - far less than the MiG's radar set can detect until it's too late. The Raptor's radar is also stealthy. While an active sensor, the AN/APG-77 radar set in the F-22 employs a classified frequency hopping scheme and controlled energy output during tracking to minimize its emissions and is proving very difficult to detect on Radar Warning Receivers, both western and east block make.

Maneuverability

If you watched Red Flag videos I posted on this thread, you heard the F-15 pilot saying that a Raptor can turn at 28 degrees per second at 20,000ft - sustained, meaning he can do this until he runs out of gas or releases the pressure on the stick. In comparison a MiG-29's maximum turn rate at maneuvering airspeed is about 20 degrees per second instantaneous and about 16-17 degrees/s sustained. And that's before the Raptor goes post stall!

Engines

Again in the Red Flag videos, the Eagle driver talks about the reliability and FOD issues with the Russian engines. The Russian engines are about 20 years behind the US in terms of metallurgy, which translates into a heavier, less responsive, and more temperamental engine that western designs. They also lack modern CAD CFD design and analysis for engine design. They're just not in the same league as western fighter engines. Never have been.

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14-05-2012, 04:31 PM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
Don't buy Russian junk...The US has utterly dominated the Air since 1970.
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14-05-2012, 07:53 PM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
The future of aircraft is drones anyway. Why have a human in there needing a cockpit, life support, etc and reducing the aircraft capabilities.

Humans are very limited in how many G's can be sustained before passing out. Also other benefits like controlling from a safe location without putting trained pilots at risk. Being able to have shift changes for long missions.

Gotta say though, Russia has a long way to go to catch up with aircraft tech. They fell behind during the cold war and have been behind ever since. America has always had a stronger economy.

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14-05-2012, 08:15 PM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
(14-05-2012 07:53 PM)DeepThought Wrote:  The future of aircraft is drones anyway. Why have a human in there needing a cockpit, life support, etc and reducing the aircraft capabilities.

Humans are very limited in how many G's can be sustained before passing out. Also other benefits like controlling from a safe location without putting trained pilots at risk. Being able to have shift changes for long missions.
Don't mention that at an USAF or USN Officer's Club. That's punishable by a mandatory purchase of a round of drinks!

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

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15-05-2012, 02:09 AM (This post was last modified: 15-05-2012 06:55 AM by Filox.)
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
Lalalalalalalalala...I'm not hearing you...lalalalallalalalalalala...you have no idea what you are talking, MIG is the best plane evah...lalalalalalalalalalalalala...

Big Grin


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15-05-2012, 12:45 PM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
If that's the case, I've got some swampland in Arkansas I'd like to sell you.

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16-05-2012, 12:59 AM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
Uuuuuuu, interesting, what's the price?


Smile

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17-05-2012, 12:32 PM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
Wikipedia is being subtle and chooses to come out for the SU-30.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

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17-05-2012, 01:04 PM
RE: Can an F-22 fighter make you sick?
(17-05-2012 12:32 PM)Caveman Wrote:  Wikipedia is being subtle and chooses to come out for the SU-30.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
Hmmmm. I never saw anything in the Wikipedia articles for either the SU-30 or the F-22 which made clear the SU-30 performance superiority over the F-22.

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